Rethinking the Geological Layers

Creation-Evolution Headlines ^ | 3/5/2004 | Creation-Evolution Headlines

[bondserv]

Thank you for your personal observations. They are perfectly to the point of the article.

It is strange how the forces of the enemy cause seemingly normal people to purposely overlook the truth to protect their agenda.

"The Passion of the Christ" presented this truth very clearly in the failure of Pilate. The truth requires a stand against the enemy of truth.

[VadeRetro]

You missed that the death of those dinosaurs were a result of Adam's sin.

You'd think we could find a reasonably human-looking fossil older than 2-3 million years, or a dinosaur younger than 65 million, if Adam was around before the dinosaurs went extinct. Please do not throw the bogus Paluxy tracks up to me. I know about them, you know about them, and they're not what you wish.

[Elsie]

No you don't...neither one of you!

How can you be so SURE?

[bondserv]

You'd think we could find a reasonably human-looking fossil older than 2-3 million years, or a dinosaur younger than 65 million, if Adam was around before the dinosaurs went extinct. Please do not throw the bogus Paluxy tracks up to me. I know about them, you know about them, and they're not what you wish.

Hello Vade.

You seem pretty certain of your assessment.

[Dimensio]

Not everyone can see the truth.

The "truth" in this case is that your conclusion (evolution is false) did not logically follow from your premesis.

More importantly Jesus personally died for your sins.

What has this to do with your inability to construct a logical argument? Moreover, what does any of this have to do with geological study?

[VadeRetro]

You seem pretty certain of your assessment.

Talk about a gap! There's a gap for you. Dinosaurs way down there and only way down there. Humans up here and only up here.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the pings!

[Doctor Stochastic]

...were the layers of Grand Canyon laid down by a little water over a long time, or a lot of water over a little time?

The results of these two processes look different. Apparently, Schlager is either ignorant about the processes or he is lying intentionally.

[Dataman]

I've read the script in English translation. I will eventually see the movie.

I see nothing relevant to this debate in the story.

So glad you asked...

Cobaltblue claims to be Catholic, if I correctly recall.

The RCC teaches that Jesus is God.

This means that God does indeed intervene in history.

The RCC teaches that God became a man to take the punishment we deserve because all of us have sinned against Him.

No Adam, no Eve, no sin, no need for a Savior.

The RCC teaches that Jesus is the Creator.

The Creator taught Adam, Eve and the flood.

So a viewing of The Passion might give CB a new insight into her own world view.

[Dataman]

I suspect you are not qualified either by knowledge or by intellect to speak about my relationship with God. I'll thank you in advance for not making further attempts.

I think you misread Bondserv.

One other thing that just doesn't quite work intellectually: If the Bible were to support evolution, I suspect evolutionists would use it as evidence for their view. But if the Bible supports special creation, somehow that is supposed to discredit creationism.

[Dataman]

I'm not sure where you studied logic, but where I learned it, this would be called a "non-sequitur".

I'm not sure where you studied logic, but a non sequitur means the conclusion does not follow from the premiss(es) not, as you used it, that you can't follow the argument.

[Theophilus]

No, I think discovering oil is a perfectly practical way to use geological knowledge. It certainly does a lot more for humanity than the satisfaction obtained by geologists shuffling strata based on the fossils and then classifying the fossils based on the strata in order to piece together a geological just-so story.

This is interesting because this week I observed a conversation between my boss, a MIT/then Stanford trained oil hunting geologist and another fellow about his experiences in geophysics. He said that the oil companies just go through the motions with the science and then management simply ignores the work and rolls the dice, usually in close proximity to a known oil field. That's why he revels in defense modeling where he gets to roll the dice and does not miss geophysics at all. I concur with you about the incestuous circular strata/fossil shuffling.

[Theophilus]

No, I think discovering oil is a perfectly practical way to use geological knowledge. It certainly does a lot more for humanity than the satisfaction obtained by geologists shuffling strata based on the fossils and then classifying the fossils based on the strata in order to piece together a geological just-so story.

This is interesting because this week I observed a conversation between my boss, a MIT/then Stanford trained oil hunting geologist and another fellow about his experiences in geophysics. He said that the oil companies just go through the motions with the science and then management simply ignores the work and rolls the dice, usually in close proximity to a known oil field. That's why he revels in defense modeling where he gets to roll the dice and does not miss geophysics at all. I concur with you about the incestuous circular strata/fossil shuffling.

[bondserv]

If death only began after Adam sinned, and Adam was the first man, then animals could not have evolved for millions of years prior to Adam's sin, for none of them would have died and the world would be full of trillions upon trillions of animals by the time man evolved to bring about death by his sin.

Hope this helps.

Sorry for abandoning you all, time with my wife took priority.

[bondserv]

I posted some Biblical grounds that support my contentions in #39. Scientific language defines the "curse" as the second Law of thermodynamics.

God's initial Creation was perfect, then it became cursed through the entry of corruption via Adam's sin. The genetic characteristics of life have been devolving ever since. Genetic characteristics cause similar kinds of animals to be suceptable to the same types of mutations. This is evident in the genetic code that is being revealed as we speak. Adaptations within the kinds are limited by the code to avoid rapid corruption and a quicker end to life.

Don't blame your hammer toe, or your bad back on God. The rightful blame goes to Adam and our sin, which wages death.

[Dataman]

I concur with you about the incestuous circular strata/fossil shuffling.

It is a big game, isn't it? The existence of oil fields is an argument for a young earth since there is no reason for porous rocks to hold the oil under pressure for more than a few thousand years let alone 65 million years.

[bondserv]

But keep in mind that the "instant canyons" carved by volcanic lahars are distinctly and recognizably different from the "amazing geological formations" that do indeed take "eons" to form.

You are limiting your perspective to ity-bity catastrophes. Try billions of tons of moving water, higher than the tallest mountains, on for size. We can only speculate as to the geologic ramifications of that kind of force applied to the earths crust, as well as the erosion footprints, and sedimentary deposits stacking up across large regions.

As this article shows, like our medical and health care scientists that say something different every day with their new studies, the "hard" sciences by their very nature exhibit the same types of confusion.

Under my plan we put the confusion in the God lock-box, under your plan you remain confused. However, I do find science entertaining and sometimes helpful.

[BMCDA]

Scientific language defines the "curse" as the second Law of thermodynamics.

Ahh! So there was no time's arrow before the fall (or it pointed to the future as well as the past if these terms make any sense in such a world).

[bondserv]

Ahh! So there was no time's arrow before the fall (or it pointed to the future as well as the past if these terms make any sense in such a world).

The Holy Spirit (Inspired the authorship of the scripture) has you covered. Notice the descriptive language He chose to use.

Gen 4:5
5 Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.

The Holy Spirit never misses a chance to thwart the wiles of Satan.

[Ichneumon]

A short drive from my city is a Dino wonderland known as Drumheller.

Calgary, Bannf, or Red Deer? I meet my wife in Calgary.

South of it runs several badlands environs..again..Dino wonderland...bones and fossils everywhere. Drumheller used to be near the edge of the inland sea wich overlay North America from the Gulf of Mexico. One can easily find the KT boundry running like a contractors snap line on the cliff wall contours. Dated at 65 million yrs ago..or so they say : ) Well..one quick visual..and noting the short descent distance down in the canyon one goes to find the KT boundry..and immediately an inquisitive mind ponders that this dating run must be faulty.

Okay, I'll bite -- how do you figure that?

What is said to be the millions of years below KT and the short interval above of terain visually doesn't jive.

Jive is for swing music...

Why exactly do you think they don't jibe? The KT boundary is less than 2% of the age of the (solid) Earth ago. Exactly how deep did you expect it to be? Yes, 65 million years ago is a long time in absolute terms, but relative to the age of the Earth, it's just a few pages out of the whole book.

Even in a canyon cutting to just the top of the precambrian rock, the KT boundary would be only 10% of the way down the canyon wall.

And that's presuming no erosion, no periods of nondeposition, and no uplift, which is certainly *not* the case for southern Alberta. Adding in those factors, the KT boundary could be found at any relative depth, including at the surface, as it is in some parts of Alberta.

Here's a stratigraphic cross-section of Alberta:

Note the Coalspur/Scollard formation -- it straddles the KT barrier. Also note that it reaches the *surface* at *several* places aross Alberta, and even disappears entirely for the eastern half of the province.

Here's an overview of the coal formations at the surface and subsurface across southern Alberta:

As you can see, the Scollard formation, which includes the KT boundary, reaches the surface around the Red Deer/Calgary area. So of course you'll find the KT boundary at a very "shallow" location (i.e. high up) on any canyon wall in that area.

So please tell me why you think that the relative position of the KT line in a particular canyon cut somehow doesn't jibe with the terrain and how you conclude that "this dating run must be faulty"?

In the Atlas mountains of North Africa is a slab of rock hundreds of feet long..at a high inclination angle. The rock has Dinosaur tracks ..they go upward the distance of the angular slab..and are easily seen..and have depth to their imprint. Supposedly..the Atlas maountains were worn down over eons..and now these tracks are at the surface after the erosion action. again..the tracks a clear..and uniform allong the slab. the slab is as flat and clean as a marble face on a downtown office building. so then.,if erosion is the action over eons..why then are the tracks so clear...should they not have been worn away by the power of what eroded the mighty Atlas mountains ?

No, because they were preserved by overlying layers for the last ~65 million years, and those layers, which included a softer layer than the print-bearing strata, have now worn away, exposing the dinosaur tracks. In another few hundred thousand years the tracks will likely be worn away as well.

That's how most fossils are preserved and then exposed at present day (not counting the vaster numbers which are still buried under strata, or long since eroded away to nothing). This is basic stuff.

Again..one see's the visual presentation and ponders that this cannot be countless millions of years.

One might ponder that if one hasn't taken beginner's courses in geology and paleontology.

Call it common sense...

That's not quite what I'd call it.

a thought rational the academic should get in touch with.

They do. That's why they study and learn about things before making conclusions about them.

[bondserv:] It is strange how the forces of the enemy cause seemingly normal people to purposely overlook the truth to protect their agenda.

Oh, right, geologists make maps of coal formations because *Satan* causes "seemingly normal people" to "purposely overlook the truth" that the KT boundary *can't* be found near the surface. Right. Got it. Whatever you say.