Microsoft, Amid Dwindling Interest, Talks Up Computing as a Career

New York Times ^ | March 1, 2004 | Steve Lohr

[international american]

I have bout only waterfront property since age 25...I am 50 in March. I wanted to know about your area for means of retirement. It looks very tranquil.

[Myrddin]

My kid already figured that out. He's been pursuing a degree in astrophysics. He's financing it by selling real estate in San Diego. His Spanish speaking skills are sharp enough to conduct complete deals from end to end in Spanish. He English skills are fine too. He wrote the valedictorian speech for his girlfriend (now at Georgetown).

[FoxPro]

I actually know of people working on sensetive government projects that are sending their work over seas, and their managers dont even know this.

They sit around in their cubes and play computer games all day, and all of their work gets done overnight in New Delhi India.

Of course the Indians turn around and send their work to Vietnam, which is even cheaper, and they sit around and play computer games all day.

The vietnamese actually do the work, because there is basically nothing else to do.

The whole thing is getting completly absurd.

There is nothing that a guy in Vietnam cant do with a computer that you can do, other than putting in a new card, or flipping a switch. But you can train a monkey to do that.

You should change your major.

Cant you see the signs of the times?

[international american]

Buy a forclosure...paint it and sell it for 20 grand more than you are in it. Do this 10 times a year, and you are all done by age 40!

[_Jim]

There are enough general purpose computers to last forever. The next thing is microcontrollers, which is like devolving back to 8-bit processors. The challenge will be to see where a microcontroller is not and put one there.

Hear hear! ... smart systems ... fully networked autonomous appliances with self-diagnosis ... AI and robotics for the home -

- we have only scratched the surface of technology overall - and everyone laments that 'commodity' IT services that sharp high-school kids could do are being outsourced overseas!

[13foxtrot]

R&D is being outsourced as well. Not just the grunt work.

VC's can now start companies using 100% offshore staff and services.

[EEDUDE]

"In their drive for the cheapest labor, (which means foreign) the High Tech industry has slit the throat of the domestic pipeline. Good students suddenly are attracted to banking, law (shudder), business, engineering or anything except computer science. Hello Mr. Gates...Econ 101..."


Yeah. There was already enough trouble getting kids to tackle the tough engineering courses.

I have been a professional engineer (electronics)all my career.

I cannot recommend engineering as a professional pursuit to my kids. You're job WILL go to an H-1B or be outsourced.

It's just not worth the work to get an engineering degree.

Study something that can't be outsourced

[_Jim]

R&D is being outsourced as well.

Stated without cite, without attribution; as if it were the entire picture and true throughout all industry segments.

This view should not be accepted carte blanche without some 'substance' for back up and a little refinement indicating where this has been observed ....

[EEDUDE]

"Engineering is about the only true job training left in college."

As an EE, I can tell you that the job market SUCKS.

It's not so much outsourcing as it is the huge number of H-1Bs coming in to the country.

The funny thing is that in many cases companies hire these folks assuming that they know something. Some are excellent, but many are not, but it looks good on paper.

Just saved a bunch of money!

[13foxtrot]

A friend of mine who works at a large IP firm just returned from a tour of India tech-businesses. He says his clients are moving core R&D as well as grunt work off-shore.

[13foxtrot]

Here is one link - but it is not the stuff companies would tend to advertise

"It is a matter of survival for these firms, especially those in the information technology sector where the company's highest costs can be payroll. One venture capitalist even told our researchers that it would be virtually impossible to start a new IT or software company in Silicon Valley without offshore outsourcing," Mr. Challenger says."

http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2004/03/01/daily35.html

[EEDUDE]

"R&D is being outsourced as well. Not just the grunt work"


So right you are.

It happens all the time.

[_Jim]

I have been a professional engineer (electronics)all my career.

We've seen substantial changes since I've been in the field' ... seriously, you didn't expect that vacuum-tubed receivers and TV sets (prolific in the early sixties!) would continue to be manufactured by the likes of Zenith, Curtis-Mathes and Setchel Carlson into the 21st century?

No ... so, too, with today's technology and the tools that create/are used to design, engineer and simulate today's products - we've even seen the revolution in such 'modern' technological areas (and commodities) as 'cell phones'; no longer are they simple full-duplex FM transceivers but CDMA and TDMA protocol devices capable of both 'sight and sound' on transmission as well as reception ... even the cellular 'system' of 10 years ago is now considered 'archaic' ...

[EEDUDE]

"Stated without cite, without attribution; as if it were the entire picture and true throughout all industry segments."

I ca tell you that he is correct.

If you want to do the work, go to the IEEE employment stats.

AND IT IS HAPPENING ACROSS MOST INDUSTRIES.

[oceanview]

sure, there is alot of cool stuff going on with consumer electronics too - In Japan and Asia.

[oceanview]

you had to ask:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1088968/posts

[RightWhale]

If we stop building infrastructure, new construction, we are down to maintenance jobs and won't need design engineers. Thinking of the power grid. The glamour jobs in microcomputers are already filled. What else is there? Communications and military. Well, maybe the new NASA will generate some business.

[oceanview]

I'll tell my unemployed friends to start working on that AI breakthrough right away.

[_Jim]

"It is a matter of survival for these firms, especially those in the information technology sector ...

And as I stated previously: this something that may be considred a commodity nowadays; how do you economically compete in a field which has become 'a commodity' - short answer, I don't think that you do. Our strength in this counry (well, it *has* been) is always advancing onto the next step WHERE a particular customer base is willing to pay for advanced technologyy.

Look at this in your own lifetime - VCRs (used to cost a fortune) Color TVs (equally insanely priced at one time) automatic transmisions (used to be extra-cost options on cars) and computers (main-frame 'iron' and minis by DEC used to be norm until 10 - 15 years ago).

Long ago - horses and buggy whips, entertainment limited to musical talent on the buggy.

Yesterday - the model T and still no radio (until the late forties and Motorola's first car radios)

Today - autotrans, A/C and for mobile music/entertainment: CDs AM, FM and satellite "XM" radio

Tomorrow - ?

[oceanview]

I'm glad to see these young college people are "getting it" and bailing out. Better to make a change now, then be some guy in their 40s looking over their shoulder at work everyday.