Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Post "Assault Weapons" Ban / Semi-Auto Configuration Question

Posted on 03/03/2004 7:46:43 AM PST by RockChucker

I own a 7.62x39 Saiga (AK semi-auto variant).

After the AWB sunsets, will I be able to legally alter my rifle to accept large capactiy AK mags?

Do I need to have the 9 parts made in the US, or can I willy-nilly attach parts from an AK parts kit, such as a folding stock and a pistol grip?

Could I also swap out the barrel with one with a traditional AK flash suppressor?

Thanks in advance.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Technical
KEYWORDS: bang
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-42 next last
To: RockChucker; templar
My understanding is that when the AWB sunsets, manufacturers will be able to make or import weapons with the 'evil' characteristics again, as long as they don't run afoul of the original AW import ban from Bush I in 1989, and of course the NFA concerning full autos, etc.

There is a bit of a gray area concerning all the 'post-ban' rifles made between 1994 and 2004. It would seem that after the AWB sunsets, we can put flash hiders and bayonet lugs and folding stocks and hi-cap mags on them just like a 'pre-ban', but the BATFE will have to clarify the policy on that.

It's a mad, mad world when, in the midst of the war on terror and liberal hordes at the door to the White House, we have to even have this discussion over meaningless bits of metal.

21 posted on 03/03/2004 9:52:49 AM PST by Sender ("This is the most important election in the history of the world." -DU)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RicocheT
These firearms are cheap to make and import without the ban.

I'm thinking they could be domestically manufactured and sold retail for around 350 to 400 bucks, maybe a little bit more or less. An AK, while being a fine military rifle, is not particulary complicated or precision and lends itself to cheap mass production procedures.

22 posted on 03/03/2004 9:56:02 AM PST by templar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Why give the lurking antis ammo to try and link FR to guns, nuts and right wing militia kooks.

Why let the lurking antis control what we discuss? It's our forum, not theirs. I doubt that they hold back anything on their forums to avoid impinging on our sensibilities.

23 posted on 03/03/2004 10:03:14 AM PST by templar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Firearms, and discussions of their nomenclature have been a part of FR since before FR was, well, FR.
24 posted on 03/03/2004 10:13:15 AM PST by donozark
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis; Joe Brower; Shooter 2.5; Travis McGee; harpseal
So why have a *BANG_LIST? I feel at home here on FR and not on other forums. There are MANY experts in the field here and tons of real life experiences to back up the knowledge. I learn new things all the time and I'm a certified firearms instructor and shooting competitor. You don't want to post on a gun thread? FINE. Don't post. But don't tell me not to post. I'm going to stop here because the more I think about your IDIOTIC comment, the madder I get. I'm sure there are other folks on the 2nd Amendment/guns PING list who might have something to say about your comment as well.
25 posted on 03/03/2004 1:05:28 PM PST by ExSoldier (When the going gets tough, the tough go cyclic.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
It's important to get out our message that decent law abiding citizens own firearms. Most people who don't own firarms would never post on a gun website so they wouldn't know what kind of people are there in the first place.

FR is an ideal place for the people who don't own or would even consider owning firearms a chance to meet Second Amendment activists.

It's also important that every person who loves their freedom should know how to keep that freedom should the soap box and ballot box fail.
26 posted on 03/03/2004 1:20:31 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: from occupied ga
I think a repeal of the 1986 Machine gun law should be started immediately. I'm absolutely with you on this one.

Can you spend a couple of hundred hours contacting the members of the democrat party and see if you could persuade them to vote for it?

Thank you.
27 posted on 03/03/2004 1:27:55 PM PST by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
Can you spend a couple of hundred hours contacting the members of the democrat party and see if you could persuade them to vote for it?

With wit like this you're wasted on this forum. You should go to CB radio immediately.

28 posted on 03/03/2004 5:29:46 PM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: templar
I'm thinking they could be domestically manufactured and sold retail for around 350 to 400 bucks, maybe a little bit more or less. An AK, while being a fine military rifle, is not particulary complicated or precision and lends itself to cheap mass production procedures.

We did a very detailed production study for the Navy during the days of the JSSAP small arms progran of the late 1980s-early90s that gave birth to the M16A2 modifications to the M16A1, the M9 pistol, the Marine M40A1 snipers rifle, the adoption of the H&K MP5 *Navy* SMG, and other goodies in the toybox. The consensus was that in quantities of a million, an AKM could be produced for between $60 and $80 apiece.

Note that in terms of complexity, an AKM stands between an automobile bumper jack and a bicycle or lawnmower, and production pricing should be comprable. That wasn't low enough for the project envisioned, and we were directed to see what could be managed in the $30-$35 price range. Back to the drawing boards....

-archy-/-

29 posted on 03/03/2004 7:12:18 PM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
It's a Free Republic. Adios, don't be a stranger.
30 posted on 03/03/2004 10:57:02 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Maybe on FR we should just leave our personal guns at the door. Why give the lurking antis ammo to try and link FR to guns, nuts and right wing militia kooks.

Like Sam Adams? Or Thomas Jefferson. They were gun nuts too you know, and Adams was pretty kooky, or at least a heck of a rable rouser.

The basic question involved what the law would be, and what would or would not be permissible *after* the AWB sunsets. No one is telling anyone to break the law now. Sam Adams probably would do so it he were around today, but no one here is doing that.

31 posted on 03/04/2004 2:24:49 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Shooter 2.5
I think a repeal of the 1986 Machine gun law should be started immediately. I'm absolutely with you on this one.

I'd go further and urge repeal of the 1934 National Firearms Act. It's the grandaddy of all federal gun control, and is just as unconstitutional as all the rest.

32 posted on 03/04/2004 2:27:44 PM PST by El Gato (Federal Judges can twist the Constitution into anything.. Or so they think.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: archy; templar
From what I recall, the ability to be manufactured cheaply under Third World conditions was a deliberate design feature of the AK series, in that the Russians wanted to be able to keep making them even if war had demolished most of their higher-tech manufacturing facilities. There was no need for it to be all that accurate, because their riflemen would be marginally-trained conscripts. Anybody who actually had any marksmanship ability would be issued a Draganov
33 posted on 03/04/2004 2:36:21 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (No anchovies!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: archy
$30.00 to $35.00 range, eh?

How about this?

I wonder if GM Guidelamp is still in business.

Regards,

L

34 posted on 03/04/2004 2:43:24 PM PST by Lurker (Don't bite the hand that meads you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: RockChucker
As others have said, your foreign-produced rifle will still be required to follow the '10 parts rule'. Yet domestic rifles won't.

If the AWB expires without reauthorization even for a second, but then is reauthorized later at some point, the real problem is going to be determining who has a pre-ban/post-ban rifle with pre-post-ban features.

You've heard of pre-bans and post-bans... Get ready for the 'pre-post-ban-pre-bans'.

If AWB is reauthorized after it expires, today's post-bans pricing will climb through the roof like pre-bans did -- as long as they were pre-post-ban. There's a real business opportunity to be had here.

Do you follow me?

35 posted on 03/04/2004 2:57:23 PM PST by The KG9 Kid (Semper Fi)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Lurker
$30.00 to $35.00 range, eh?

How about this?

I wonder if GM Guidelamp is still in business.

Regards,

GM's various metalpressing subsidiaries certainly still are, though Valkyrie's semi-auto near-repro [with the odd long barrel, a legal requirement] is a good deqal pricier.

We started with the magazine of the Swedish M45b, simplified the already bare-bones Sten, and went more austere from there. 8 moving parts when we were done, including the trigger group.

Guide Lamp cranked out more that a million of these little sweeties, too, a little closer to what our project was about. Total cost was a bit over a dollar apiece, complete with ten rounds of .45 ammo:


36 posted on 03/04/2004 2:58:28 PM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: archy
Ah yes. The Liberator.

The gun it actally took longer to load than it did to manufacture.

L

37 posted on 03/04/2004 3:05:37 PM PST by Lurker (Don't bite the hand that meads you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Ursus arctos horribilis
Why give the lurking antis ammo to try and link FR to guns, nuts and right wing militia kooks.

Been tried. During the year of Monica, CNN tried to paint FR as a militia site. A few thousand calls later, they backed down, issued a retraction and rewrote a web story.

38 posted on 03/04/2004 3:25:44 PM PST by TC Rider (The United States Constitution © 1791. All Rights Reserved.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: SauronOfMordor
From what I recall, the ability to be manufactured cheaply under Third World conditions was a deliberate design feature of the AK series, in that the Russians wanted to be able to keep making them even if war had demolished most of their higher-tech manufacturing facilities. There was no need for it to be all that accurate, because their riflemen would be marginally-trained conscripts. Anybody who actually had any marksmanship ability would be issued a Draganov

Pretty much, though considerations for suppressed weapons, such support weapons as the RPD and followon RPK, and the use of obsolete/obscelescent or captured equipment have also been a hallmark of first Soviet military planning, and now Russian.

So long as the supplies of SVD/ Dragonov rifles lasts, and more particularly, their optical equipment, then they'd be issued as you describe; following that the older gear and substitutes come out, or captured equipment gets used. Most people don't realize that the Russians equipped entire divisions with captured German equipment during WWII- that was one little item their propaganda machine didn't glorify- as well as the Lend-Lease material sent to them from the US and elsewhere.

There's a line of thought that it's actually easier to manufacture an AKM that to bring one out of the well-pickled preservation packing process the Eastern Europeans use, and that's almost certainly true of the cheaper versions of the Sten gun, whose 7 issued magazines cost more to manufacture than the guns themselves, as little as $9.00 each in some late war versions.

39 posted on 03/04/2004 3:40:12 PM PST by archy (Concrete shoes, cyanide, TNT! Done dirt cheap! Neckties, contracts, high voltage...Done dirt cheap!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: archy
A Liberator!

From what I've been told it wasn't uncommon to find a dead German lying alongisde a road, his high quality Mauser or Luger and ammo gone, and a discarded Liberator lying beside him. (In case anyone thinks a cheap handgun is worhtless against an army)

40 posted on 03/04/2004 3:47:47 PM PST by templar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-42 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson