Assault Weapon Ban extension PASSES (Senate amendment to gun industry protection bill)

C-Span ^ | 3-2-04 | Sen. Dianne Feinstein D-CA

[Atlas Sneezed]

The vote was:

52 -Aye in favor of extending the ban 47 -Nay opposed to the ban.

[Monty22]

""Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user.""

Already banned in 1934.

[TXBSAFH]

We did not even get kissed.

[Dane]

But don't you think they WOULD care if they knew exactly what it meant? The average joe thinks its about money. Those educated few (and yes, those on FR) know its far worse. And just exactly who is the average Joe relying on for their information? Hmmmm... can you see the danger?

And it doesn't affect the average joe. The average joe doesn't buy political ads. They actually get mad about the negative ads that are on constantly before an election.

Gun rights is a different issue. There are 80 million gun owners, a 1/4 of the country that does care about gun rights and looking back at when the last big gun control bill was considered(1999) and it died in conference, I have a notion that the AWB ban will have a similar fate.

[Lazamataz]

I will still vote and support him, because the demos are worse and there is a war on terror going on.

Ah. Never mind. My original surprise is now contained. This is the Appeasement Dane I have grown to know.

Hypothetical: Bush decides that Islam should be our state religion, because there are so many Muslims in the world. Are you still, then, going to vote for Bush?

[MineralMan]

"Yeah it is. We are talking simple semi auto rifles. It's simply an incremental attack on our freedom.
"

To you it's simple. To me it's simple. To the bulk of the voting public, it's something they don't understand at all. There was a poll of firearms owners not that long ago regarding the AWB extension. A majority of them said they supported extending the ban.

While those who understand the issue have strong opinions about it, most folks don't understand and don't have strong opinions.

Enough so that GWB supported the extension in 2000. Enough so that that support was recently restated by a Bush spokesperson.

"Assault weapons" are very unpopular among the electorate, generally. Yes, they're wrong, and don't understand. But the RKBA folks have not presented their case well to the uneducated electorate. In fact, most often, they've done little but call that uneducated electorate a bunch of idiots. That's not the way to convince.

Every time some spokesperson says, "Out of my cold, dead hands...." a few more folks out there think, "OK."

Education of the electorate is the point. And it hasn't been happening. Instead, a lot of GOP voters are turned off by the one-issue, threatening sort of "education" that's going on.

I'm not saying the AWB should be extended at all. I'm saying that 2nd Amendment folks have done a lousy job. I cringe every time someone goes on and on about the difference between a "clip" and a "magazine," while calling the person who doesn't know the difference an idiot.

That's not education; That's alienation. It won't work.

I despair of this whole thing. I don't own any firearms that could be classified as "assault weapons." I have no desire to own any such firearms. I do own several firearms, though, so I do care a great deal about keeping them.

I have no use for a military-style semi-auto weapon. I have no use for a 30-round magazine. I have no use for a bayonet lug or a flash suppressor. Maybe others do, but I don't.

I don't even hunt any more. I keep a Mossberg 500 shotgun for home security. I have a 1911 Colt .45. I have the tubular magazine Marlin .22 autoloader I had as a kid. I have a couple of Crosman pump-up rifles. I have a few antique firearms for which ammo is no longer easily available.

I want to keep these. I'd like you to keep what you have, as well. I don't want the AWB extension to pass, but it probably will. "Ugly guns" is an apt description, and the majority of folks don't get the reason people want to own them. There's a big job to do to educate those folks, and calling them idiots ain't gonna cut it.

Depending on DeLay probably isn't going to cut it, either.

[mrsmith]

Most 2nd amendment politics threads are pretty good IMHO.

I don't see the thoughtful, informed people who usually comment on 2nd amendment issues on this thread.

Just a lot of people taking an opportunity for a "free" rant.

[Diddle E. Squat]

Who compromised? 46 Senators didn't, and I sure didn't. But I'll be danged if I'll quit the fight just because one battle was lost.

C'mon, you gonna quit the team just because one idiot fumbled? Did the rest of the team 'compromise' when one player fumbled? Yank that idiot player, not the whole team. And if coach(the voters of ME, OH, OR, etc.) won't yank him, you just gonna quit and let the other team win?

[JohnnyZ]

Maybe more votes will be made signing this AWB, then the votes that will be lost? Maybe this is what Karl Rove believes.

Karl said the AWB ain't getting out of the House.

[Henrietta]

"You got a way with words Saber. I've seen that attitude from the party "faithful" since CFR and I'm damn sick of it."

Yeah, me too. But we should just shut up and vote Pubbie, cause they're better than Dems, right?

[TC Rider]

If he wants it dead, why do his official spokepersons keep saying he will sign it? If he really wanted it dead, he would say that on the basis on new information not available to him in 2000, he would now veto the bill. Then it would be dead, because no way are there enough votes to overide a veto. After all how many gun grabbers were going to vote for Bush even if he did sign the AWB extension?

On Sunday, I was listening to a repeat of Car Talk on our local NPR station. After Klick and Klack, some libby, whiney talk show came on, subject GUNS.

In the introduction, the host told how Bush had already vetoed the extension of the AWB. Gotta love the libs, telling a lie when the truth would have worked.

The one hour presentation of anti-gunners was balanced by about 3 minutes of Suzanna Gratia Hupp, the woman from Texas who was in the Luby Restaurant shooting.

[flashbunny]

Don't waste your time with Dane. He's one of the several reasons this board should have an 'ignore' feature.

[Travis McGee]

How, precisely, is a ban on assault weapons a violation of the 2nd Amendment?

Have you ever READ the 2nd Amendment?

First, the term "assault weapon" is a lie, because "assault weapons" are full-automatic capable rifles like the M-16. We are talking about semi-automatic rifles that outwardly LOOK like military assault rifles. So already, the entire debate is based on a lie.

[Dane]

Ah. Never mind. My original surprise is now contained. This is the Appeasement Dane I have grown to know

JMO, well it seems that you know appeasment well since you are willing to appease the demos by not voting against them.

Well anyway LAZ have your fatalistic orgy all you want, it gets boring after a while.

[TXBSAFH]

Where do you draw the line? I am seeinf less and less difference on the issues (they are many) I care about betwwen Bush and the Rats.

[dead]

Check out Reuters opening sentence:

Senate Narrowly Passes Assault Weapons Ban
Joanne Kenen

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - In a rare victory for gun control advocates, the Senate on Tuesday voted 52-47 to extend the 1994 ban on the sale of assault weapons, which had been set to expire in September.

Moments later the Senate, by a similar 53-46 vote, backed closing the so-called "gun show loophole," requiring people who buy firearms to undergo the same criminal background checks at gun shows as they would have to at a licensed gun store.

Both measures were amendments to a bill backed by the National Rifle Association gun lobby that would shield much of the gun industry from civil lawsuits. That bill is expected to pass easily later on Tuesday.

The White House has said President Bush would sign the extension of the assault weapons ban, although he has not made a public push for its passage and urged the Senate not to vote on it at this time.

The NRA opposes both the gun show and the assault weapons ban amendments, and they face an uphill struggle in the U.S. House of Representatives.

Both Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts and Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina interrupted their campaigns for the Democratic presidential nomination to return to the Senate to vote for the amendments, a politically sensitive issue in an election year. Many observers believe gun control votes have hurt Democrats at the polls.

Some Democrats and gun control advocates had wanted to try to strengthen the assault weapons ban, closing loopholes that gun-makers have found over the past decade. But these lawmakers said they realized extending the current ban would be enough of a struggle.

The ban was originally passed in 1994, during President Bill Clinton's administration.

Backers said it has gotten some of the most dangerous weapons off the streets, but foes regard it as an unnecessary regulation of law-abiding gun owners.

"It didn't work and it isn't necessary," said Idaho Republican Sen. Larry Craig, who has led the floor fight against gun control.

But New Jersey Democratic Sen. Frank Lautenberg said assault weapons are "intended to kill as many people as possible in as short a period of time" and don't belong on the street.

Despite his 2000 campaign statements that he would sign an extension of the ban, Bush urged the Senate not to attach the assault weapon ban to the lawsuit protection bill, saying he did not want controversial amendments to slow down passage of the immunity bill.

[BigSkyFreeper]

Pure emotional knee jerk rhetorical pap.

Pretty much describes this thread succinctly.

[Cold Heat]

I gotta go do some work. I will get back to this later.

This issue needs some discussion and I just don't have the time needed right now.

Later

[longtermmemmory]

Turn you anger into a positive force. Say exactly what you just said to the http://www.whitehouse.gov.

The president is on record for a clean amendment free bill.

Write a short TO THE POINT (and not angry) letter to let the administration know.

something like:


Dear Mr. President:

I urge you to repeat you call for a clean amendment free (insert bill here). Please urge the conference committee to remove all extraneous amendments from the bill to comply with your previous statement.

This is a dealbreaker issue for myself. I can not support a president, or his party, who would sign the bill as amended.

Signed

(insert your name.)

[Hat-Trick]

Sorry, but I have to butt in here and make the following suggestion. Please read the following essay, excerpted from Jeff Snyder's excellent book "Nation of Cowards", then come back and ask again if you still don't get it.

Nation of Cowards Excerpt

As a citizen of our country, still allowed, as of this writing, to participate in the blessings of liberty, this is definitely something you should understand.

Regards,

Hat-Trick

[Joe Hadenuf]

Yeah it is. We are talking simple semi auto rifles. It's simply an incremental attack on our freedom.

While those who understand the issue have strong opinions about it, most folks don't understand and don't have strong opinions. Enough so that GWB supported the extension in 2000. Enough so that that support was recently restated by a Bush spokesperson.

No, no. GWB, the Senate and Congress *fully* understnd this. It's not rocket science. They know exactly what they are doing. Again, this is not a complicated issue. It's simply an attack on our freedoms.