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1 posted on 02/19/2004 3:40:35 PM PST by missyme
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To: missyme
Its important to keep in mind that this movie represents Mel Gibson's interpretation of what happened. Not necessarily what actually occurred.

As anyone who saw "The Patriot" or "Braveheart" knows, Gibson makes films which are riveting and entertaining, but not necessarily historically accurate.

Having seen the outtakes, I noticed a number of historical inaccuracies and improbablities.

Christ probably didn't carry the entire cross. It would take a Charles Atlas - several of them - to lug an entire cross to Golgotha. The Upright portions were always there -like a gallows. The man to be executed carried just the cross-piece - a heavy enough timber, but one well within the realm of possibility.

The nails used to hold a person's arms on the structure were driven through the wrists, NOT through the palms as the film apparently portrays.

Pilate was a Roman Magistrate - a Civilian Official. He probably didn't wear armour, as he wasn't a military man.

The actors apparently are speaking Latin with an Italian accent, as Pilate says "Ecce Homo" and its pronounced by him as "Echay Homo" A Roman of the period would have pronounced it as though it was "Ekkay Homo" The "ch" sound was not found in classical Latin. It crept into the pronounciation of Ecclesiatical or Church Latin in the Middle Ages.

The soldiers portrayed escorting Christ in the film are carrying pila. The Pilum was a throwing weapon designed for field combat, not guard duty. The head of the pilum was made of hardened metal and the metal shaft below it, joining it to the main wooden portion, was NOT hardened. The purpose of this was to cause the pilum shaft to bend upon striking an enemy shield, armour, or the ground, so it couldn't be thrown back at the Roman forces. Thus it made a poor thrusting weapon, which was what a soldier on guard duty needed. More probably Roman guards or sentries used a lancea or hasta - a more typical spear or lance-like weapon designed for stabbing, not throwing.

When you see the film, notiuce if the "v" in Latin was pronounced like our "v". If so, that's another error. "V" in classical Latin was pronounced like our "w".

Finally, note if the soldiers on guard duty have a scutum - the characteristic rectangular shield used by the Romans. If they do, tht's probably another inaccuracy. Roman soldiers were not allowed to used scuta on guard duty. They had a habit of using them to prop themselves up and then fall asleep.

Finally, I can't recall reading about a snake in the Gospels, that was back in Genesis.

Gibson, as he admits, is not a historian, but there are enough Roman History buffs and Classical scholars out there he could have consulted, unless, as with the red-coated Tarletons' legions in the Patriot instead of the correct green coated troops, he was using artistic license, although I can't understand why here.

Finally, from what I saw of the film, it appeared to be REALLY violent and brutal and bloody, not that the event was not, but the degree of detail seemed to me to be excessively brutal.
158 posted on 02/20/2004 12:58:42 PM PST by ZULU (GOD BLESS SENATOR McCARTHY!!!!)
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To: missyme
The title of the article is "Scholars: Crucifixion Portrayal Inaccurate".

Yet the most prevalent theme in the article is ignorance and a lack of certainty.

164 posted on 02/20/2004 3:51:02 PM PST by Lazamataz (I believe whatever the last poster tells me.)
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To: missyme
Jhn 20:24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.


Jhn 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.


Jhn 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.


Jhn 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
176 posted on 02/22/2004 10:54:50 AM PST by tutstar ( <{{---><)
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To: missyme
By reading these scholars, you'd think the shape of the cross is the pivotal central point of Christianity. Makes one wonder if Mel Gibson faithfully recreated the shapes of the clouds on that day, too.
183 posted on 02/23/2004 7:12:15 AM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: missyme
Splitting hairs ... .
186 posted on 02/23/2004 2:56:03 PM PST by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: missyme
Zias said the question of whether Jesus was nailed to the cross or simply tied to it remains a mystery. "There is no evidence whatsoever he was nailed," he said. "The Gospels say he was crucified and leave it at that."

I would like to know how these supposed experts could make such blatant errors: A. That Jesus was said to have gone out to Golgotha carrying the cross (whether the cross piece or the entire thing) according to the book of John is not negated by the account of the other gospels saying that Simon of Cyrene was compelled to carry it very shortly after Jesus was led out to be crucified. B. Although we may not know what any standard practice was about how the condemned were affixed to the cross, we do know in particular and specific detail in the case of Jesus:
On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord. John 20:19&20

But he [Thomas] said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."--John 20:25

He [Jesus] said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.--Luke 24:38-40

This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross.--Acts 2:23

having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.--Colossians 2:14


Zias, though, was probably correct about the nails not having been placed through the palms of the hand. In Greek, the word kairos, hand, refers to everything including the wrist on down.
190 posted on 02/23/2004 3:30:38 PM PST by aruanan
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To: missyme
I don't think they tied many to the cross. What would people fear..rope burns? The History channel did a pretty interesting story on it, part of their Spartacus "documentary", they used standardized nails, washers, and a healthy solder would last 100-130 hours on the cross.
193 posted on 02/23/2004 3:42:26 PM PST by Dead Dog
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To: missyme
Suppose Gibson had had Jesus preside over a gay wedding, and then criticize the recent war in Iraq. Do you think AP would think it worth running full length articles discussing the "inaccuracies" of the film then?

The willingness to pile on Gibson, and carry water for the ADL's complaints, come from a barely-concealed hostility toward Christianity. It p*sses me off-- and I'm not religious at all, not a Christian.

The violence of this movie has me thinking I'll choose my spots. I'll go when I'm up for enduring that. Even if I didn't go, though, I would buy a ticket on principle.

198 posted on 02/24/2004 11:57:04 AM PST by Timm
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To: missyme
"John Dominic Crossan"

I was wondering when his name was going to crop up in the story. Funny how the AP unquestioningly accepts the liberal version of the story as fact and yet has to go back to the same tired old group of half a dozen radical atheist "scholars" every time they want to write a hit piece on the Almighty.

No, there's no liberal media bias.
199 posted on 02/24/2004 1:13:39 PM PST by applemac_g4
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To: missyme
Zias said the question of whether Jesus was nailed to the cross or simply tied to it remains a mystery. "There is no evidence whatsoever he was nailed," he said. "The Gospels say he was crucified and leave it at that."

Hmmmm. Some food for thought.

Yea, dogs are round about me; a company of evildoers encircle me; they have pierced my hands and feet--I can count all my bones. (Ps 22:16-17)

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. " (Isaiah 53:5)

Eight days later, his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said, "Peace be with you." Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:24-28)

207 posted on 02/25/2004 1:01:32 PM PST by N. Theknow (John Kerry is nothing more than Ted Kennedy without a dead girl in the car.)
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To: missyme
bump to self to critize in article...
212 posted on 02/26/2004 8:22:39 PM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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