Jerusalem Wall Collapse Sparks Jewish-Muslim Row: MUSLIMS CONTINUE ATTEMPT TO ERASE JEWISH HISTORY

rEUTERS ^ | Jerusalem Wall Collapse Sparks Jewish-Muslim Row

[Cinnamon Girl]

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - The collapse of part of Jerusalem's Western Wall during a rare snowstorm sparked a row between Jewish and Muslim clerics Sunday as one rabbi called it a miracle no worshippers were hurt.

The collapse late Saturday of an 800-year-old embankment next to where Jewish women pray at the site commonly known as the "wailing wall" sent people fleeing from tumbling rocks.

The Muslim authority for the area, the Waqf, blamed Israeli building work nearby for the problem; but an Israeli architect said construction by Arabs was making the wall unstable.

"It's a miracle nobody was hurt," said rabbi Shmuel Rabinovich, blaming time and the weather for the collapse.

Engineers were also looking at whether a small earthquake last week might have played a part in the incident. Israeli police kept people away from the site Sunday.

The head of the Waqf, whose authority includes the Al-Aqsa mosque above the wall, said it had been complaining about Israeli renovations of the Western Wall plaza for some time.

"We've been saying it could cause problems," said Adnan al-Husseini.

Israeli archaeologist Eilat Mazar said it was the fifth time in two years that parts of the walls had begun to crumble, buckle or crack as a result of what she called unsupervised construction by the Waqf -- a charge the Muslim clerics deny.

"What concerns me most is the Temple Mount itself is in danger of collapsing...The earthquake has certainly done more damage but nobody goes to check," she told Reuters.

Jewish women worship separately from men and Rabinovich said partitions would be set up in the men's section to allow women to pray there until their area was made safe after the collapse.

New Yorker Frady Schwartz, praying at the wall Sunday, was unfazed; she said with a shrug: "It's in God's hands."

[Thinkin' Gal]

Were you speaking metaphorically?

I was quoting Paul and John. They explain the temple metaphor in Corinthians and John as the body of Christ, the Church. And in THAT context,

1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Now people can choose to believe that the temple mentioned in 2 Thessalonians is a physical rebuilt Jewish edifice in Jerusalem, or face the alternative: the 'son of perdition' is a disciple of Jesus, as was Judas the betrayer, the thief.

Most prefer to have their ears tickled by the prophecy peddlers, when it is the Christians (not the Jews) who believe the Messiah to be God incarnate. (I'm not arguing that point either way, just noting that the Jews are not looking for a messiah-God; that is a Christian expectation/belief.)

That said, Ezekiel's temple will be built at such a time when and where there is space for it. He was given the blueprint. The goyim will come to Jerusalem to worship also. There is a reason they will be celebrating the Feast of Tabernacles (something to do with a mighty hand).

If Christians believe that Jesus heralded a new (or rather, renewed) method Jewish worship, much to the consternation of the religious elite, and that this was God's design... then the same could be said for a new (or rather renewed) method of Christian worship, much to the consternation of the religious elite and other assorted experts.

Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Isaiah 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Isaiah 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.

[gdc61]

what is it you are trying to conclude? that the
Jews are Not going to build a temple in jeruselem?

[gdc61]

the Jew have come back into the promised land as unbelievers,as prophesied. they, for the most part, do not accept Christ as the messiah. therefore, they do not follow the body is the temple, belief.
the Jews will build a new temple on the old temple mount,(after the Dome collapses)probably on the very spot of Solomons temple.they will begin the daily sacrifices. how else will the daily sacrifices be "cut off"?
in Rev.11,1 2 as you posted the other day it tells john to measure the area of the temple. where? it also says to just measure the alter and the inner court cuz the outer court is given to the gentiles. without a physical Temple much end time prophecy cannot be fulfilled.

[Thinkin' Gal]

what is it you are trying to conclude? that the Jews are Not going to build a temple in jeruselem?

Ezekiel's temple will be built. The "third" temple isn't about to be built, it's about to be hewn down, having become a habitation of devils and all manner of unclean beasts and abominations.

[Just mythoughts]

I cannot say that prophecy is written that in fact a "temple" will or will not be rebuilt prior to the return of Christ.

The Bible to me is a "WHOLE" book, starting in Genesis, the beginning, the foundation by which the rest flow from.

The Old which Christ and his disciples knew and continuously quoted from made the OLD a part of the new.

Christ taught in parables and when asked why by his disciples he taught in parables Christ answered

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from hims shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, (Isaiah 6:9,10) which saith

'By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.'

16. But bless are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.


Christ ask and used that phrase about many subject in his short time in the flesh. Christ always explained the parables to his disciples but not to the masses, and we in this generation have the parables as well as their meaning.

This to me says it is none of my business, but our Heavenly Father's business who has eyes to see and ears to hear.

There is an interest thing "MIRACLE" that happened at the death of Christ while upon the cross that I rarely ever hear mentioned which to me is telling about the status of the temple.

Matthew 27: 50 Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the spirit.

51 And, behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

That veil was where? The purpose of the veil was what? The renting of that veil was not done of man's hands, thus that set a benchmark that no longer a blood sacrifice was required for forgiveness.

Again I know many believe that a third temple must be built, based upon my study thus far I do not believe the "Temple" spoken of in Ezekiel will be built of flesh man's hands.

Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 all three tells what would be going on prior to Christ's return.

Matthew 24:21 (quoting Daniel) Tor then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

This declares that the "7" year tribulation will be cut short.

John 2 after Christ cleansed the Temple v. 16 And said unto them that sold doves, "Take these things hence; make not My Father's house an house of merchandise."

v17 And His disciples remembered that it was written, "The zeal of Thine house hath eaten me up." quoted from Psalms 69:9

v 18 Then answered the Jews and said unto Him, "What sign shewest Thou unto us, seeing that Thou doest these things?"

v 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, "Destroy this Temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

Note the accusation against Christ was that Matthew 26:61 And said, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the Temple of God, and to build it in three days.'"

The accusation was a lie, Christ's words were twisted.

So given what we are told from the "OLD" and a second witness in the "NEW" Christ became the "Temple".

But hey each to his own, I only care about what is written and seek to gain understanding.

[Jeremiah Jr]

The abomination that causes desolation, a.k.a., the Waqf.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Both. There are more similarities between the two than extremists of either persuasion like to admit.

[Cinnamon Girl]

Maybe you'd like to elaborate.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Separation of the sexes, prohibitions on pork, requirement of special ritual procedures for killing animals to be eaten, the whole concept of "unclean", etc. These are both Semitic religions, with obviously common origins, and they naturally share a lot of features. Sad that they've ended up arch-enemies.

[Cinnamon Girl]

What extremist or non-extremist would disagree with those similarities? But here's a major difference: nowhere in the Jewish religion does it command Jews to hate, forceably convert, or kill Muslims.

[GovernmentShrinker]

There are lots of major differences, probably due in large part to the Jewish people's long detour out of the area where the culture and religion originated. But violent hostility to other religions was originally common to both (as well as to many other religions). Fortunately, few contemporary Jews show any interest in literally pursuing the instructions in Deuteronomy re dealing with pagans and their sacred sites and figures. With any luck, in a millennium or two, it will be also hard to find any Muslims with such sociopathic inclinations. The two religions don't appear to me to be inherently very different, but the development of the culture and theology of one seems to be running a couple thousand years behind the other, resulting in the Muslims appearing uniquely barbaric in the context of the 21st century. Take heart, though -- Christianity got completely over its Inquisitional and "witch"-burning period in just a couple hundred years, proving that speedier progress is not impossible.

[FreedomSurge]

"nowhere in the Jewish religion does it command Jews to hate, forceably convert, or kill Muslims."

Nowhere in the Arabic Qur'an are the Muslims commanded to kill Jews, they are commanded to treat Jews with a great deal of respect. That they do not do so is a different matter.

[Cinnamon Girl]

Muslims are not considered idol worshippers according to Deuteronomy. Also, remember that first came Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam. Islam did not originate in Israel. G-d spoke directly to the Jewish people in the Bible, telling them exactly who to war against. Do you read the Bible and find these battles unacceptable? Please recognize that your idea that Judaism and Islam "don't appear to be inherently very different" is due to the fact that you don't know much about either religion.

[Cinnamon Girl]

You read the Koran?

[FreedomSurge]

"These are both Semitic religions, with obviously common origins, and they naturally share a lot of features."

They share common features because Muhammad learned his monotheism initially from the Jewish tribes in Mecca and Medina. He didn't seem to be very familiar with Christianity although he had some contact with Christian. So it is natural that much of his borrowings came from the Jews.

[FreedomSurge]

Try reading http://answering-islam.org.uk if you want more information on the Koran and the Islam religion. Hatred of the Jews or for that matter Christians is not in the Koran. But, the Koran is not the only religious text for the Muslims. The Hageeth is just as important. Maybe they get their hatred from how Muhammad, the perfect Muslim, had at least three Jews assassinated.

[restornu]

What ever it was I think time is near that the Lord temple will be built maybe in our life time!

[restornu]

This is one of the reason I appreciate FR we get to read and know about so many things.

thanks for posting I pray good things are instore!

[Cinnamon Girl]

Thanks. I'm also looking at Daniel Pipes website right now for his bibliography on Islam. I've never read the koran, and don't know what the source of all the writings are, but I've heard stuff quoted about dhimmis and Jews in particular.