Effort to raise battleship GRAF SPEE at mouth of Plate R. in Uruguay postponed b/c high winds.

BBC On-Line ^

[yankeedame]

Last Updated: Thursday, 5 February, 2004, 18:05 GMT

Bad weather delays Graf Spee dive

The Graf Spee wrought havoc among allied merchant vessels

An operation to raise the German World War II battleship Graf Spee from the mouth of the River Plate in Uruguay has been postponed due to high winds.

Divers now do not expect to be able to begin the long and complicated project until Sunday at the earliest.

The vessel was scuttled more than 60 years ago after sustaining damage in a confrontation with allied forces.

The recovery effort is reported to be privately funded and will cost millions of dollars.

Pride of the navy

The Graf Spee was once a symbol of German naval might.

In the early days of World War II it roamed the South Atlantic, sinking as many as nine allied merchant ships.

But the vessel was scuttled by her captain after it was damaged in the Battle of the River Plate, one of the earliest and most important naval confrontations of the Second World War in December 1939.

Now it lies in pieces just eight metres (26 feet) below the waters outside the Uruguayan port capital of Montevideo.

When BBC News Online interviewed the project spokesman Hector Bado, he was with the salvage team surveying the site of the operation.

Winds of 40 kilometres per hour (25mph) could be heard whistling down the telephone.

The team's first task, he said, was to bring up the ship's communications tower, which held its early radar system - and weighs 27,000 kilograms (60,000 lb).

"To do that, we need a crane," he said, "but we can't even get near the site of the wreck at the moment."

Once the 12-hour operation to raise the communications tower is over, it will be put briefly on display to the public before undergoing restoration.

Then the work to retrieve the other pieces of the boat will begin - estimated to take between two and three years.

"Survivors have told us that there are live munitions down there," Mr Bado said.

"But we've looked, and we haven't seen any."

The 15-person team undertaking the work includes Uruguayans, Argentines, Germans, and Americans, and is expected to grow as the project takes shape.

Once restored, the vessel is eventually expected to become a tourist attraction in Montevideo.

Surrounded by enemy

The Graf Spee was called a pocket battleship because it carried less powerful guns than its larger counterparts such as the Bismarck.

But that did not stop it from wreaking havoc among allied merchant shipping.

So serious was the threat it posed that it was pursued by a group of battle cruisers in what culminated in the Battle of the River Plate.

Accounts of the time say that thousands of Uruguayans witnessed the battle from cliff tops along the coast.

The Graf Spee was crippled in the confrontation and after taking sanctuary briefly in Montevideo, the captain felt he had no choice but to scuttle her near the port because he was surrounded by enemy ships.

The crew was taken to Buenos Aires and the captain committed suicide a few days later.

[uncbuck]

Thanks for the post, from a naval historian.

[nightdriver]

I've seen several documentaries about this ship and its demise. How was the term "pocket battleship" derived?

[thinktwice]

But the vessel was scuttled by her captain after it was damaged in the Battle of the River Plate

Thanks to great British intelligence, the Graf Spee captain found himself trapped in an anchorage without much chance of escape, and the rules of war (and Uruguay) forced him to leave port. So he put most of nis most of his crew ashore and steamed out into the waiting British guns.

That captain died with his ship. It is a story of great heroism.

[SoCal Pubbie]

The captain killed himslelf because the British tricked him into thinking their task force had arrived, when in fact it was a few days away. After the fact he found out his ship could have left port safely.

By all accounts the man was a chivalrous officer who didn't buy into the Nazi crapola.

[johnny7]

The crew was taken to Buenos Aires and the captain committed suicide a few days later.

This is what I have read also. Where did you get your information?

[thinktwice]

I'm working from memory.

Look at the picture. That ship was heavily hit before it went down. From what I remember, that ship went out with a skeleton crew -- Captain included -- and died with great honor.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Destroyer: would have 3", 4" or 5" guns and no armor, very fast 30-35+ knots)

Cruiser: 6" or 8" guns, very light armor 1" to 2" to 4" thick - sometimes a bit more. Max speed might be 30 knots. US light anti-air cruisers Atlanta class had continual engine and propeller problems trying to get over 33 knots.... Designed to kill any destroyers or convoys or group of escorts they find, and fast enough to get away from heavier armed ships. Independent scouts, theoretically, though only the Germans used them this way in WWI and WWII.

Battle cruiser: heavier armor, but only in places (6-8" thick most areas, even less on the decks, The Hood, for example, was sunk by one shell that penetrated her decks.) 12" 14" guns. Speed "might" be 25-28 knots. Fast enough to run away from battleships, but also fast enough to catch any convoys they find. Most got sunk trying to fight aircraft or heavier-armed ships they had to attack despite having little armor.

Pocket battleships: As slow as regular battleships, as heavily armored as regular battleships, but smaller, often with smaller guns; 12" or 14" for example. Not as fast as battle cruisers. Less stores, crew, fuel. "A battleship, but small enough you could put it in your pocket."

Battleship: From mid-1890 until 1945: Biggest guns starting at 12" in 1900, growing up to 15" (British) 16" (US) and 18" (Japan) before WWII. Armor was heavy enough to completely stop the same size shell it could fire: 16" to 20" thick, going all the way around and over the entire middle of the ship. Speed was about 18" in 1900, going up to 22-25 knots in the 1920's, then finally 28-30 knots in early 30, then up to 35 knots finally in the last 4 US battleships that were designed to stay up with the carriers: Iowa, Missouri, New Jersey, Kentucky (not finished)

[thinktwice]

The Graf Spee story is at click here

He did take it out with a skeleton crew, and he was hit by British fire; but the story doesn't mention his dying in the battle.

[inkling]

I'm confused by the BBC calling the area "River Plate." If my S.A. geography and rudimentary understanding of Spanish don't fail me, the river is called Rio de la Plata, which means "River of the Silver" or "Silver River". Near the source of the river, Spanish explorers found a lot of silver, which they promptly mined and sent back to Madrid. The silver is also how Argentina got its name, since Argent is an old name for the element silver.

Oh well... fascinating story anyway.

[aomagrat]

Very interesting. Captain Hans Langsdorff was no nazi. When he committed suicide, he did it in front of the Imperial German flag of WWI.

[thinktwice]

From that article ...

Three days after the Graf Spee scuttle, Capt. Langsdorff committed suicide with a shot to the head in his room in the Navy Arsenal in Buenos Aires. He had dressed himself in full uniform and positioned himself on the "kaiserlichen Reichskriegsflagge" (Imperial German flag without the swastika).

Langsdorff's funeral was attended by many. He was an example of the last signs of chivalry in the era of mass murder.

[Ahban]

The term "Pocket Battelship" comes from German efforts to build a ship with big guns on a vessel that pretended to meet the limitations of the Treay of Versae (sic).

That treaty said that Germany could not have a ship in excess of 10,000 tons in weight. Most battleships of the time were 30,000 tons or so. Germany was still pretending to abide by the treaty when the keels were laid.

What they did was build a ship that had light-cruiser armour plating and dimensions, but had a smaller number of unusually large main guns for a ship of that displacement. Most light crusiers had 9-12 six inch guns, the heavy cruisers had 8-10 eight inch guns. The Graff Speee had only six main guns, but they were high velocity 11 inch guns that could outshoot anything but the most fearsome British battleships.

These guns were placed in two turrets instead of the usual 3-5 turrets in order to save weight. In the never-fought battle of the river Platt this would have been a disadvantage- the turrets moved more slowly than the smaller turrets on the British ships, and would have had a hard time engaging fast moving targets at very close range.

The Graff Spee only meet the 10,000 ton requirement because she was weighed before the two big turrets were installed. She actually fought at about 12,500 tons. Only one or two more like here were built. Once Germany renounced the treaty, she immediately started in on proper Battleships like the Bismark. Two or three other pocket battleships in the construction pipeline were extended to have three turrets of 11 inch guns and eventually weighed in at about 26,000 tons. They are usually classed as "Battle Cruisers".

signed- Former Naval Officer who likes History

[SAMWolf]

The pocket battleships (Panzerschiff - "armoured ship" in German, also known as Deutschland class) were a class of warships built by Germany in accordance with restrictions imposed by the Treaty of Versailles. In fact they were not battleships, but big heavy cruisers, armed with guns larger, than other nations' cruisers. The three ships in the class were launched between 1931 and 1934.

Deutschland, renamed Lützow in October 1939.
Admiral Graf Spee
Admiral Scheer

The principal feature of the pocket battleship design was that they carried guns large enough (280 mm / 11" calibre) to outgun any enemy ship fast enough to catch them, while being fast enough to outrun an enemy powerful enough to cause damage. The same basic design philosophy had led to a generation of ships just prior to World War I known as the battlecruiser. In practice the fleet commanders forced the battlecruisers to operate along with the larger dreadnoughts, and they suffered badly.

The Germans were dedicated to not making the same mistake twice, and used the panzerschiff purely as commerce-raiders on the high seas. This would make them very difficult to bring to task, as they could generally avoid any fight they didn't like. Speed is not enough to save a ship from a bad commander however, and three much less capable Royal Navy ships were able to damage the Graf Spee during the Battle of the River Plate. Just as in World War I, the ships then spent the vast majority of their time at anchor.

[Eric in the Ozarks]

Iowa, New Jersey, Missouri and Wisconsin (BB 61, 62, 63 and 64). Then the Illinois, BB 65, (25 percent completed, cancelled in August, 1945) and then Kentucky, BB 66, (suspended February 1947 after 72 percent complete).
The bow section of the Kentucky was removed and fitted on the Wisconsin after the Wisconsin's collision in 1956.
Following the Iowa Class was to be the Montana Class, to include Montana, Ohio, Maine, New Hampshire and Louisiana (BB 67, 68, 69, 70 and 71). Their design had 12 sixteen inch guns, but were never built.

[Uncle Hal]

In my college days I had a good friend whose father was in Montevideo when the Graf Spee was sunk. He said everybody went to the beach to watch the gun battle. It was one of those things you would never forget.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Good details.

Notice that the one pocket battleship was defeated, but because it couldn't run (being trapped in port), and had to wait while some 12 total British ships gathered from all over the South Atlantic.

Note to Germans: There were 12 Brit's available, eventually.

Note to Brit's: You got lucky here.

Note to US: If carriers or destroyers are trapped in port, same thing could happen. Mines, block ships (cargo ships sunk in the channel, suicide ships or bots attacking the Cole, and "simple" collisions - 900 foot merchant simply ramming (squishing) a US warship that can't move.

[El Gran Salseron]

"Note to US: If carriers or destroyers are trapped in port, same thing could happen. Mines, block ships (cargo ships sunk in the channel, suicide ships or bots attacking the Cole, and "simple" collisions - 900 foot merchant simply ramming (squishing) a US warship that can't move."

You bring up an interesting point and also a long-lost but now refreshed memory.

I attended Sonar School or as it was called then, the ASW school, which was immediately on San Diego Bay. There was a very long pier at the school and at the end of each school day many of us would walk out to the end of the pier to watch all of the ship activity in San Diego Bay and the takeoffs and landings of naval aircraft from North Island Navy Base.

I remember one day particularly well. I had bypassed the evening meal on this particular day so that I was out on the end of the pier by myself with my legs dangling over the side of the pier.

As soon as I sat down I looked out into the bay, expecting to see a beehive of naval activity. The bay was silent with NO Navy ships in sight. I glanced toward North Island and it was silent with NO takeoffs and landings.

At the time I did find it unusual but dismissed it and just enjoyed the serenity of the moment.

The next day after class we found out that the blockade of Cuba had commenced.

Then it dawned upon me! THAT is why the bay was devoid of ships the previous day! They had ALL gotten underway. Back then, "Remember Pearl Harbor" was still etched into the minds of the military brass.

Thank you for making me remember that day!

I also remember ships pouring back into port, almost like an "in-the-water" parade, after the Cuban blockade crisis was finished peacefully.

[PzLdr]

German term was PANZERSCHIFFE [armored ship. “Pocket battlership [like “blitzkrieg] was a newspaperman’s invention. With 11” main gubs, and 5.9” secondary, the pocket battleships were designed to outrun what they couldn’t outgun [except for some battlecruisers] and were designed for commerce raiding from the git go. If memory serves, they were one of the first classes of warship to be all welded.

[PzLdr]

Wrapped himself in an Imperial German naval flag when he shot himself.