Parents can teach kids to stop abductions

CNN ^ | 2-5-04 | N/A

[JustPiper]

The key to remaining safe lies in not leaving the place where the abductor approaches a child, said Bob Stuber of the Texas-based Escape School, which runs educational programs across the United States.

A kidnapper "wants to get out somewhere by himself," said Stuber, a former police officer and founder of the Escape School. "He may threaten the child, but he's not going to hurt the child right there. That's not what this is about. That takes place later."

[JustPiper]

Bump Kim! Glad to see you and posted this!

[technochick99]

What I think you are missing is that many criminals want to harm/ abduct /whatever victims, those who don't fight back or make a scene. They want it easy, so they will frequently back off from a hassle. Meekness and submission will work against us.

Sure, it might not work every time, but wouldn't you want to give kids a fighting chance? Not to mention the guilt that people face after surviving criminal acts... "oh, if I had only fought back..."

Besides, if someone is abducting someone, it's not like it's going to be much worse if you resist.

How utterly defeatist!

[JustPiper]

I always wanted my kids to be in martial arts, particularly Tai-Chi and we are in Chicago -g-

[technochick99]

This underestimates the strength of a desparate and determined adult,

So, what would you tell a female relative of yours - if a desperate and determined rapist comes along, just lie back and take it?!?

[JustPiper]

OK Steve I truly don't get you, but see Carlie was only told not to approach strangers. What if she had been given hypothetical situations when one approached her? What is your problem, that you would not have wanted to give Carlie these tools?!

Would you have even told Carlie do not walk in deserted parking lots alone? Or is that not worthy either. You truly bother me!

[JustPiper]

Or rehabilitation? Pshaw!

[JustPiper]

I stopped feeling smart when Polly Klass was snatched right out of her room in front of friends ;(

[JustPiper]

I think more like an injection of kickinghimsquareinhispants!

[JustPiper]

You know I have seen many come and go here at FR, but Steve perplexed me so I wanted to see his take on other issue's,so I looked at his posting history, I don't think Steve likes us females too much

[technochick99]

Oh stop being such a feminist!

;)

[technochick99]

One more question Steve, your son, or another young male relative, is being theatened repeatedly by a bully. What do you tell him to do?

[MississippiMan]

Utter nonsense. There is no scientific basis to know what child behaviors will work here, and if we knew there would be no way to teach it reliably.

Whatever are you talking about? I think this is a great set of tips. I constantly drilled things like this with my kids when they were growing up. Constantly. There are some here I didn't ever think of, though.

Too many parents today are sooooo complacent in this stuff. I always told mine to make as much noise as they possibly could. Kick, scream, bite, poke them straight in the eyeballs. If a man, kick him or punch him as hard as they can in the crotch. Scream "this is not my daddy!" or "this is not mom!"

I can't imagine what you're calling nonsense; I think every parent should go over things like this with their kids OFTEN. Perhaps it's not scientific enough to suit you, but most of this stuff is pure common sense.

MM

[the invisib1e hand]

can't help but think how much safer society would be if the just would arm themselves.

[Steve Eisenberg]

most of this stuff is pure common sense

Yes. It is common sense. Carlie's mother said that her daughter would do everything possible to get away from Smith. I believe her, but common sense to me is that a child against planned out pure evil in an adult is an unequal struggle. It looks like he tried at least once before to kidnap a woman, and failed, and so decided to use his "great with kids" skills to single out a victim he could succeed with.

[MississippiMan]

...common sense to me is that a child against planned out pure evil in an adult is an unequal struggle.

Sure it is, but you can help equalize it a bit with many of these things. Many of these abductions take place in plain view of other adults who just don't notice because the perp convinces the kid to be quiet, probably by threatening them or telling them they'll hurt their parents if the kid makes a noise or whatever. The core thing I always stressed was to fight and make noise no matter WHAT the adult said, no matter WHAT the adult offered, no matter WHAT the adult threatened, no matter WHO the adult was or claimed to be or appeared to be. I believe the odds greatly improve for the child if you can truly get that point to register.

It can be incredibly hard to get that point REALLY ingrained, though. I saw a hidden-camera show in which, with parents watching (unknown to the child) and constantly assuring the interviewer that there was NO way their child would go with a stranger, time after time the child would quietly and almost immediately go with the stranger. It was one of the most frightening things I ever saw on TV.

MM

[Oorang]

Morning JP and a big thank you for this thread.

This link, IMO, needs to be posted again. ChildLures.com

Folks, send this link to anyone on your email list with children, grandchildren, etc.

BTTT!

[JustPiper]

Bump!!!

[JustPiper]

Sit there and take it I assume?

[JustPiper]

Carlie's Mom said she was told not to 'approach' strangers, there are also other things in the news but I won't demean this thread

[JustPiper]

Profiler believes experienced predator targeted Carlie
an ABC Action News report 2/03/04
related story: Family pleads, investigators dig to find abducted girl (2/03/04)

TAMPA - The one clue that investigators have in the abduction of 11-year-old Carlie Brucia is a surveillance tape that appeared to capture the abduction. Now that tape is getting scrutinized every way possible.

While some investigators are attempting to digitally enhance the images to get clues that might have escaped first glance, others, including an FBI profiler, are studying the behavior of Carlie and her abductor on the tape.

ABC Action News caught up with one former FBI profiler as he was getting on a plane to teach exactly this type of profiling at the FBI Academy. Joe Navarro said after viewing the tape that the kidnapper used body language to control Carlie very quickly.

"If you notice on the tape, he steps right in front of her. He blocks her way and then immediately takes control of the her arm, which is very predatory, authoritative behavior," Navarro observed.

Navarro used his 25 years of studying criminal behavior to dissect each frame of the video. He believes the sixth-grader didn't know her kidnapper because Carlie looked down as he approached her.

"Her posture is very erect, very stiff, very uncomfortable," he continued.

Carlie also tried to take a step back, but the man pulled on her arm.

Joe Navarro watches the Bruchia tape with an experienced eye.
"If you notice, her left hand is lagging behind. It's almost subconsciously, as though she is trying to grasp on to the safety that was behind her," he added.

Navarro suspects the kidnapper may work or live in the area because he seems comfortable on the tape; he never looks around or hesitates. The profiler claims that may also indicate that he watched his 11-year-old target and felt comfortable she would not put up a fight.

"[He] positioned himself to watch her for a little bit, and when he saw that there was nobody around and realized this was an optimal area, then he struck," the former profiler said. "What's sad is to see her behavior. She realizes this is dangerous."

Navarro believes Carlie didn't know what to do, so she cooperated with the adult who was in control. He wants to stress how important it is for parents to train their children to yell for help and run away whenever approached by a stranger.

Another interesting detail he observed is the kidnapper was wearing a uniform. Navarro said kids tend to respect someone in uniform, so that may have been a non-verbal form of control as well.

Note:
A second tape was revealed showing Smith's car and the advantage of it's position, he killed Carlie most likely relatively fast after snatching her, in the woods just as his last victim, only 3 miles from the scene