[ClintonBeGone]

I hope some of the economic Fred Flintstones here will read this article and understand the points the author is making.

[Sender]

Flintstone ping

[dfwgator]

It's also important to know that when countries outsource work to India or China, they are only doing so for very low-end operations that require little skill or training.

That's where the article goes astray.

[neutrino]

Fine, fine. And the now unemployed, or underemployed, US taxpayer will pay fewer tax dollars. Which will fail to support the existing infrastructure of our government, along with the ability to service the outstanding debt.

India and China will have more revenue to support a larger government and a bigger military. The U.S. will fade in strength, power - and significance.

Happy?

[Taliesan]

It sells a wireless mouse called Wanda for about $40 that is assembled in China. Of the $40, China gets only $3. The rest goes to suppliers, many based in America, which make components for the mouse, and to domestic retailers.

[A. Pole]

Any jobs saved in the short-run by restrictions on outsourcing will come at the expense of better jobs in the future that will not be created.

I see. Does it mean that outsourcing will generate better jobs in the future? How far in the future? What jobs? And where? How does he know the future?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

The author is a moron.

[Moleman]

The article flies in the face of what has made the USA prosperous for all these years. Work hard, educate yourself, get a good job, continue to work hard, get married, buy house have 2.5 kids.
I have a three year old girl and a boy on the way :-) what kind of jobs (besides service jobs) does the author think will be in the USA when my kids grow up.
I don't think I'll encourage them to follow my footsteps into Engineering.

[Middle Man]

"In the process, they are becoming more like Americans, which is translating into demand for American goods and lifestyles."

Great. Maybe this pent-up demand for American goods will lead to the reopening of all those shuttered factories.

[ravingnutter]

FYI...under the radar news...

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 28, 2004 05:18:58 PM ] MUMBAI: If you thought that the US Senate had finished with cracking down on outsourcing, think again. Things could just get worse for Indian software and BPO companies

On Friday, President George W Bush signed into law a Bill, which bars outsourcing by the US Treasury and Transport departments, though this does not apply to the whole Federal government as some reports had indicated.

However, another Bill, called "Truthfulness, Responsibility and Accountability in Contracting Act of 2003" (TRAC Act), introduced in the US Senate last year, could halt outsourcing by the entire federal government, if it becomes law.

The objective of the TRAC Bill is "to ensure that the business of the federal government is conducted in the public interest and in a manner that provides for public accountability, efficient delivery of services, reasonable cost savings, and prevention of unwarranted Government expenses, and for other purposes”.

The TRAC Bill refers to outsourcing as one of the components of "contracting out" which will be monitored by the General Accounting Office (GAO). The new Bill says that certifying agencies will have to be formed in each department to monitor all projects contracted out.

These agencies will have to report to the GAO that the procedures followed for outsourcing are fair and transparent. These procedures have been put in place to make outsourcing as difficult as possible.

Currently two per cent of all outsourcing projects from India are from the US government. Typically, federal projects are not offshored to India in a major way as they often fall foul of the "buy American” provision that sets minimum levels for domestic content in products bought by the US government.

The Bill does not, in any way, affect outsourcing by private US companies except to the extent that it fosters a protectionist climate within the USA. Meanwhile President Bush has signed the omnibus spending Bill making it a law. The Bill is accompanied by a revised budget circular (called A-76) which will prevent outsourcing to India, or to any other country by the Treasury and Transportation departments.

A copy of the new law, which is available with The Economic Times , does not refer to India or even to outsourcing directly, but will nevertheless affect almost all developing and emerging countries including India.

The most damaging part in the new law is the following: "An activity or function of an executive agency that is converted to contractor performance under Office of Management and Budget Circular A-76 may not be performed by the contractor at a location outside the United States except to the extent that such activity or function was previously performed by Federal Government employees outside the United States."

This clause will prevent any offshore outsourcing by the US federal government to any other part of the world. The law also revises a circular called A-76. The revised circular reads, "That in all public and private sector competition for more than 10 positions, a private sector offer would have to be 10% or $10 million less than the government offer to be considered."

What this means is that, if the positions of more than the 10 employees are affected, then the private sector offer would have to be 10 per cent less than the government offer. The A-76 changes have been dictated by the federal employee unions and industry associations.

US employee unions, like the American Federation of Government Employees, have hailed the provisions as being far more equitable to US federal workers. It will also affect small and medium companies in the US which benefited from outsourcing.

Source

As for the private sector, see:

Info on The American Competition Enhancement Act of 2003

[1rudeboy]

If we truly applied their argument that the U.S. cannot compete with low-wage earners in a protectionist and oppressive economy, then it won't be long until the Soviet Union leaves us in the dust.

[Protagoras]

Thomas Sowell and Walter E Williams both on the op ed page of the Investors Business Daily today.

[ex-snook]

"Any jobs saved in the short-run by restrictions on outsourcing will come at the expense of better jobs in the future "

This is a political economy where people vote on today not tomorrow. 'In the future' ends on election day. In accounting terms it's closing day and you can't book future earnings currently.

[Condor51]

It's also important to know that when countries outsource work to India or China, they are only doing so for very low-end operations that require little skill or training.

Oh really. Like the telephone tech support for Dell^® Computers?!? THAT type of little skill. Huh, you MORON?

A couple months back I was wondering why I was always getting a tech who COULDN'T SPEAK ENGLISH (and would have to hang up on), it was then reported that they were outsourcing the phone support to Malaysia, or some other god forsaken place. But once they were outed they then vowed to end that practice. Don't know if they did as I haven't called since then.

Next time I'm building my own frickin pc. The heck with them all.

[William Terrell]

Did Mr. Bartlett take into consideration that the new holders of all these jobs Americans used to have don't pay US income taxes, US property taxes, sales taxes, or any US taxes at all?

Did he consider, while he was immersed in all the good these gone jobs do that the new workers in foreign countries don't:

Go to US restaurants
Take their cars to US auto repair shops
Take their clothes to US cleaners
Buy groceries from US supermarkets
But auto parts from US auto parts stores
Buy their clothes in US clothing stores
Buy property form US sellers
Rent housing from US landlords
Buy materials from US building supply stores
Have their furniture rehupostered by US upholsters
Buy their autos from US dealerships and car lots
Pay for licenses and car tags from state offices
Buy gas and oil from US filling stations
Go to movies, and games in US theaters and arenas
Buy US postage stamps/products from US post offices
Ship their packages using US FED Express or UPS?

Surely he didn't forget all this, did he?

[gonewt]

Hogwash. Utter hogwash.

The most common defenses of outsourcing are:

1) Companies must replace American workers with 3rd world contractors in order to cut costs & stay afloat.
2) Outsourcing forces Americans to "retrain" themselves for higher-paying jobs.

Both are full o' baloney.

Sure, some companies really DO have to cut costs. But by and large, the companies participating in outsourcing are the biggies (i.e. Bank of America), who already employ tens of thousands (or more) people. Companies like that are notorious for employing tons of middle managers who do little more than occupy a desk chair from 8-5. The notion that they "need" to fire these Americans & replace them with Indians is just silly. What they "need" to do is operate more efficiently, and they'd save just as much.

Now, to the 2nd argument. I've got a masters degree, and I'm an IT professional. Most people I know who have been "outsourced" have college degrees. These people aren't blue collar laborers. These are highly skilled professionals. The notion that we must "retrain" or "get more educated" is silly, considering some of the idiots with NO skills (i.e. the aforementioned middle managers) don't get outsourced.

Outsourcing (per se) isn't evil. It's all a matter of the circumstances, and in most of them, it's a ruthless endeavor.

[TomasUSMC]

Don't talk about Outsourcing without mentioning:
INSOURCING and Amnesty.
H1B visas are killing American Hitech jobs. And the legislation is supported by the Republican Party. In 2000 and 2001 there were supposed to be ONLY 400,000 H1B visas issued. But instead, there were more than 700,000 issued because of the exemptions in the law allowing education and non-profit jobs to not count against the 200,000 a year cap.
The exceptions continue so there is, in reality, no cap. This does not count the hundreds of thousands of L1 visas.

So you have Outsourcing and In-sourcing, what pray tell will the GOP call the kinda sorta amnesty for 12 million Illegal Invading aliens? The-rest-of-sourcing?

As soon as new jobs appear the GOP and Dems will In-source them as fast as possible.

Alexander Hamilton who wrote in his 1791 report as Treasury Secretary, "The wealth...independence and security of a Country, appear to be materially connected with the prosperity of manufactures. Every nation ought to endeavor to possess within itself all the essentials of national supply."

Henry Clay: "Poverty befalls any nation that neglects and abandons the care of its own industry, leaving it exposed to the action of foreign powers--there is a remedy and that consists in --adopting a Genuine American System accomplished by the establishment of a tariff--with the view of promoting American industry--the cause is the cause of the country, and it must and it will prevail."

"(1840s) To David Ricardo's argument that we should abandon the home industry and rely on imports if a foreign nation could manufacture more cheaply, Friedrich List's reply was withering: 'Who would be consoled for the loss of an arm by the knowing that he had nevertheless bought his shirts forty percent cheaper

Teddy Roosevelt who wrote, "I thank God I am not a free trader." No Borders NO Vote

[bvw]

"a new market for American goods and services"

And what goods and services are we atlaking about? The article doesn't mention any.

[bvw]

When the factories were parted out to China and the line workers released to the public dole of unemployment, the mantra was "They can ca re-train for new 'knowledge worker' jobs!" And many did.

Now the 'knowledge worker jobs' also are being tossed, and where is the claim of the next job? None is given, show us all, where in this article they are.

And not some general claim that something will come along, if you work for it. For what? Not tinkerbell stuff, please.

The early Americans had wood lot and fields, bogs and mines, fish-filled sea to built their wealth from. The middle generations had Freedom and Liberty -- an internal market for JOBS and GOODS.

We have less Liberty, and our internal market for JOBS is made deficient, and that for GOODS only running on fumes and bad promises.

This article claims "all will be better", but brings not fact or logic or history to bear to give any substance to that claim -- the claim is a perfect example of "magical thinking"!

Let's all clap and keep Tinkerbell alive!

That's your stance. Pro-clapping. Call us back when you can show more than that, or show us where in this article is any real claim to hope.