Earth's ruin complete, Mars next

Auburn Plainsman ^ | 1-23-04 | Auburn Plainsman

[Paul C. Jesup]

Of course, this is merely speculation on your part as well.

I am not the first to compare the decline of the U.S. with the fall of Ancient Rome, and I doubt I will be the last.

You really should see the History Channel 'Barbarian' specials on the Huns, Gauls, Monguls and Vikings.

The first two have a lot to do with the fall of Rome.

[JasonC]

I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher.

Look it up...

[ambrose]

Actually, colonizing Mars, Titan and beyond would be keeping with the United States' manifest destiny, and would be the glue to keep it together.

[Prodigal Son]

You really should see the History Channel 'Barbarian' specials on the Huns, Gauls, Monguls and Vikings.

Hmmm. I don't have a television, but those sound like they might be interesting programmes to watch if I did.

[Paul C. Jesup]

So where is your white horse?

[ambrose]

It's been a long road,
To get from there to here.
It's been a long time,
but my time is finally here.

And I can feel a change in the wind right now.
Nothing's in my way.
And they're not gonna hold me down no more.
No they're not gonna hold me down.

'Cause I've got faith of the heart.
I'm going where my heart will take me.
I've got faith to believe.
I can do anything.
I've got strength of the soul.
And no one's going to bend or break me.
I can reach any star.
I've got faith,
I've got faith,
Faith of the heart.

It's been a long night,
Trying to find my way.
Been thru the darkness,
Now I finally have my day.

And I will see my dream come alive at last.
I will touch the sky.
And they're not gonna hold me down no more.
No they're not gonna change my mind.

'Cause I've got faith of the heart.
I'm going where my heart will take me.
I've got faith to believe.
I can do anything.
I've got strength of the soul.
And no one's going to bend or break me.
I can reach any star.
I've got faith,
Faith of the heart.

I know the wind's so cold,
I've seen the darkest days.
But now the winds I feel,
Are only winds of change.
I've been thru the fire,
And I've been thru the rain,
But I'll be fine.

'Cause I've got faith of the heart.
I'm going where my heart will take me.
I've got faith to believe.
I can do anything.
I've got strength of the soul.
And no one's going to bend or break me.
I can reach any star.
'Cause I've got faith,
'Cause I've got faith,
Faith of the heart...

Faith of the heart.
I'm going where my heart will take me.
I've got faith to believe.
And no one's going to bend or break me.
I can reach any star.
'Cause I've got faith,
'Cause I've got faith,
Faith of the heart...

It's been a Long Road...

[Paul C. Jesup]

Faith is only a form of strenght, you have to actually ACT on that faith to make something happen.

[JasonC]

Right here. Where is your crystal ball?

[Paul C. Jesup]

No, crystal ball. It is just that history keeps repeating itself.

[Cincinatus' Wife]

Prescription for successful space exploration program*** Much of the expertise that took us to the moon no longer exists; it will have to be reinvented. This will require the knowledge and mentoring skills of the few remaining Apollo-era engineers, designers and technicians as well as the brightest and most enthusiastic minds from our country who are willing to learn from those who did it first.***

[dyed_in_the_wool]

I was no aware Rome ever had either free elections or a free economy, the two best guards against the collapse of civilization.
Rome was, quite simply, a war machine that overextended and never embraced change.
And while we should shook for the stars, we should realize that even the simplest things can be used against us by our enemies.

[backhoe]

Earth First!
( We'll Strip-Mine the
other Planets Later... )

[Drango]

Did Jason Blair write this? The author of this screed was in the twlight zone when the speech was given. As several others have correctly noted, Bush didn't mention Mars or the space program.

[JasonC]

Seems to me it is you who keeps repeating yourself. The point is not to pretend to foretell an actually undetermined future that depends entirely on us, but to make it.

[listenhillary]

http://www.crichton-official.com/speeches/speeches_quote05.html
Excerpt...
In short, the romantic view of the natural world as a blissful Eden is only held by people who have no actual experience of nature. People who live in nature are not romantic about it at all. They may hold spiritual beliefs about the world around them, they may have a sense of the unity of nature or the aliveness of all things, but they still kill the animals and uproot the plants in order to eat, to live. If they don't, they will die.

And if you, even now, put yourself in nature even for a matter of days, you will quickly be disabused of all your romantic fantasies. Take a trek through the jungles of Borneo, and in short order you will have festering sores on your skin, you'll have bugs all over your body, biting in your hair, crawling up your nose and into your ears, you'll have infections and sickness and if you're not with somebody who knows what they're doing, you'll quickly starve to death. But chances are that even in the jungles of Borneo you won't experience nature so directly, because you will have covered your entire body with DEET and you will be doing everything you can to keep those bugs off you.

The truth is, almost nobody wants to experience real nature. What people want is to spend a week or two in a cabin in the woods, with screens on the windows. They want a simplified life for a while, without all their stuff. Or a nice river rafting trip for a few days, with somebody else doing the cooking. Nobody wants to go back to nature in any real way, and nobody does. It's all talk-and as the years go on, and the world population grows increasingly urban, it's uninformed talk. Farmers know what they're talking about. City people don't. It's all fantasy.

One way to measure the prevalence of fantasy is to note the number of people who die because they haven't the least knowledge of how nature really is. They stand beside wild animals, like buffalo, for a picture and get trampled to death; they climb a mountain in dicey weather without proper gear, and freeze to death. They drown in the surf on holiday because they can't conceive the real power of what we blithely call "the force of nature." They have seen the ocean. But they haven't been in it.

[Paul C. Jesup]

Seems to me it is you who keeps repeating yourself. The point is not to pretend to foretell an actually undetermined future that depends entirely on us, but to make it.

When someone, or a group makes the same mistake that others in the past have done, a person can predict to a high probablity what the general outcome will be.

For example, when you continue to spend more than you can afford, you will eventually go bankrupt.

[Paul C. Jesup]

I was no aware Rome ever had either free elections or a free economy, the two best guards against the collapse of civilization.

Rome did have elections (ever heard of the Roman Senate) and economic trade (every heard the term, 'All roads lead back to Rome), those are two of the main reasons why it existed so long. You cannot fund a military, if you don't have money. And pillaging is not cost effective by itself.

Now, get back to me, when you actually know something about history.

[mhking]

In Tuesday's State of the Union address, Bush proposed doubling NASA's budget to fund a permanent station on the moon and, one day, a manned mission to Mars, at a cost of more than $1 billion.

No, he didn't. This moron screwed up from his initial premise.

The space proposal was a separate measure that was not mentioned in the SOTU.

Of course, had this been AlGore (complete with claims of being the first astronaut himself) to come up with the notion of going to Mars, this writer would be falling all over himself trying to worship at the altar of Gore.

Just damn.

If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

[EveningStar]

Eat shit, Mr. Mackey.

[dyed_in_the_wool]

In order to vote in Rome, you had to be a citizen. That required being male, having had military service and owning property. Hardly 'free' in the modern sense.

As well, ownership (and by extension trade) was limited to citizens. See above about how this is hardly defined as 'free'.

I would fairly wager that I've forgotten more about Roman history than you'll ever hope to know, so why don't you get back to me when you've got a clue? Alright, cuz?

KP, correct me if I'm wrong about either of the first two points, but I can remember detailed discussions on when the 'equites' were 'granted' citizenship in the early states of Roman history, the slow process by where it radiated outward, etc. and then retracted in the face of growing opposition from the Barbarians.