Let me see if I have this straight...

Yahoo News ^

[RebelDawg]

OK, let me see if I have this straight. Corporations have been replacing American engineers and software developers with cheap foreign labor for years now and all of the sudden we are worried that there are not enough Americans enrolling in the Computer Science and Engineering fields of study in college... Go figure. Perhaps if there was an incentive to enter these fields,like the possibility of actually obtaining a job after college, then maybe we wouldn't be facing this so called labor shortage. Corporations have done this to themselves but yet they have things like this to say:

"The National Science Board and a think tank of tech executives recently warned that the economic vitality of America is threatened by a lack of U.S. graduates in science and engineering."

No, kidding? You mean that when our children see their highly paid and highly educated engineer and software developer parents put out of work by corrupt corporations hiring H1-Bs and shipping jobs over seas where they can pay employees two dollars an hour that they lose any and all incentive to enter those related fields of study? Go figure!

"The bigger issue, say the NSB and CSPP, is that America may be losing ground to foreign nations that are doing a better job of educating their youth in science and engineering. As a result, they are better able to compete against American ingenuity and innovation."

Hogwash! What does better educating the youth of foreign countries have to do with competititon when we have millions of Americans whom are already educated that cannot find employment in these very same fields! It is not about foreign education it is about foreign wages. As long as corporations want to pay foreign wages for engineers and developers then America will see a shortage of graduates in these fields. It is as simpe as that.

Are we the United States of America or have we all given up and agreed to live under the rule of some supranational global corporatist government?

[spunkets]

"These are only jobs that Americans refuse to do..."

That's right, but there's a catch that's usually left out. That's the fact that the job has a pay level associated with it. There isn't a big demand for jobs associated with low relative pay that require effort.

[templar]

In the sixties there was the the aerospace depression. Life Magazine ran a picture of a PhD engineer stocking grocery shelves.

Since the focus here is American workers in the high tech field being replaced by foreign workers in that field, are you suggesting that the Phd engineer in your example was stocking groceries because he was forced out of his profession by cheaper foreign labor? If not, then your example is unrelated to the discussion of foreign high tech people replacing American high tech people.

[Devil_Anse]

Sigh. I know. I just can't help but be amused at the spectacle of people in a foreign country becoming dismayed at hordes of us ("foreigners") coming to "take their jobs". I mean, turn about is fair play, isn't it?

[looscnnn]

"Therefore, students don't get interested, feel incompetent (because they are) and choose other fields."

No, they think they are going to be rap artists, NBA or NFL players and could care less about getting an education.

[looscnnn]

But with the destruction of the .com economy, there are plenty of IT people that are working jobs other than in the IT field. They could be working the jobs that are being done by the H1 and L1 visas.

Were there any visa workers doing the jobs of the PhD engineers during the aerospace depression? I doubt it.

[templar]

When we ship high-paying technical jobs offshore, what do we tell our kids to study in college in order for them to get a good job with a stable career when they get out of college?

Political science and law. Things nescessary to rise 6to the top in government employment.

[kenth]

I agree, there are a lot of factors, from the poor education system to the corporate mentality you mentioned. Too many have come to view the stock market as a get rich quick scheme, fueling the idea that the profit margin must be inflated at any and all cost. If it means shoddy products, including software/support, produced by cheap foreign labor, so be it.

[hedgie]

This is still the big picture. The two countries poised to be the 21st century's biggest technological powers have been utilizing our peerless graduate departments of natural science and engineering to train a generation of leaders. Don't be fooled by anecdotes about some Visual Basic programmers getting laid off. This is still the future. We want our kids in there keeping up.

This is the new Sputnik.

[unixfox]

Grow up.

You are obviously not in a tech related field.

Wake Up.

[ZULU]

A company that moves its facilities to some third world rathole to pay peon wages, no benefits and enjoy the right to dump garbage in the environment is not an American company, even if they have headquarters here and claim they are American.

They and their products should be treated as foreign corporations and everything they bring in here should be taxed - HEAVILY. The only thing these swine understand is economics and we should use an economic big stick to beat them into reason.

If we had to fight WW1 or WW2 again we couldn't do it. We haven't got the heavy industry, the shipyards, the faciliites for manufacturing war materials. Even our uniforms and hand weapons are made overseas.

This is insanity and economic suicide.

[looscnnn]

"another major factor in the outsourcing to India movement is that there are few Ameicans who are capable of producing quality software."

That does not explain why IBM would get rid of the domestic programmers and move programming to India, or are you saying that they were not producing quality software? What makes you think that an Indian programmer will do better? Are you saying that they are better at long learning curves and have better attention to detail?

What about all those that went to college and changed to CS because they liked computers? What about all those that went to college for CS and completed it? You talk about a minority of students that went for one thing and changed majors, how many students do this in general while attending college?

[MissAmericanPie]

This is just another job that Americans won't do, didn't ya know?

Let me clue you in on what the real worry is about, and you can take it or leave it. American ingenuity. They fear the lack of the ability to rip it off. Sure they can hire hindus in India working off black market stolen programs, but ask them to come up with something outside the box, ask them to innovate, and they look at their feet.

So here is their delimma, how to attract the innovative into a field where they can and will be ripped off. It's a tough sell.

[looscnnn]

It is. What I find ironic is that if we do something to keep foreigners from working jobs here, then we are being protectionist. However, the other countries are not being protectionist when they do it.

[looscnnn]

Now your just being a protectionist, not a capitalist. </sarcasm>

[Sloth]

You are correct. I have a degree in chemical engineering -- and in hindsight, I'd rather have skipped college and learned how to be a plumber or machinist or something.

[OldFriend]

And you suggest that only inner city kids aren't getting a good education in math and science.

Your ignorance is showing.

[looscnnn]

That won't float here, These are not jobs that people "refuse to do". These are good paying jobs, not some low paying job (yet).

[looscnnn]

"in hindsight, I'd rather have skipped college and learned how to be a plumber or machinist or something."

Why is that?

[theFIRMbss]

>Perhaps if there was an incentive to enter these fields,like the possibility of actually obtaining a job after college, then maybe we wouldn't be facing this so called labor shortage