After Bush speech, Russia mulls missions to Moon and Mars (...yeah right)

AFP ^ | Thu, Jan 15, 2004

[presidio9]

In an echo of the Cold War space race, Russia said that it had the know-how to relaunch its space exploration programs, a day after Washington laid out ambitious plans to return to the Moon and press on to Mars.

"We have many initiatives from researchers on organizing expeditions to the Moon and Mars," said Nikolai Moiseyev, a deputy director of the Russian Rosaviakosmos space agency.

"Before the end of the year, we intend to develop a federal space program until 2015 and it is possible that such projects would be included," the ITAR-TASS news agency quoted him as saying Thursday.

On Wednesday, US President George W. Bush (news - web sites) unveiled ambitious plans for the United States to return to the Moon as early as 2015, saying a lunar base would serve as a jumping-off point for manned missions to Mars and "across our solar system."

During the Cold War, Washington and Moscow competed fiercely in space exploration, and many Russians are still intensely proud of Soviet achievements in that field.

The Soviet Union scored a major victory on April 12, 1961, when Yury Gagarin became the first man in space. The Americans struck back eight years later, when Neil Armstrong became the first man to step on the Moon on July 20, 1969.

Moscow's space programs had to be considerably scaled back in 1991, when the Soviet Union fell apart and state financing dried up.

But as Washington outlined its plans this week, officials here emphasized that though Russia may be short of financial resources for ambitious space programs, it could hold its own in the field of technology and skills.

An official with the institute that developed the Soviet "Lunokhod" (Moonwalker) robot said that scientists have maintained their research and development efforts and could quickly resume construction.

"If Russia decides to revive its lunar program, we would need a year to create a prototype of a new Lunokhod and two to three years to construct the apparatus," Roald Kremnyev, deputy director of the Lavochkin institute, told ITAR-TASS.

"Russia can overtake USA," an anchorwoman on state television said Thursday, echoing comments the previous day by a top Russian space official who said that Moscow is capable of placing a man on Mars within 10 years at one tenth of the cost of reported US plans.

"Technically, the first flight to Mars could be made in 2014. It would cost around 15 billion dollars (11.7 billion euros) to do it, compared with the American estimate for their project of 150 billion dollars," said Leonid Gorshkov, chief designer with Energia, the Russian space constructor.

And an unnamed official at Energia on Thursday suggested that the United States and Russia should join forces in Mars exploration.

"It would be much more profitable to pool efforts in a manned flight to Mars and the planetary development instead of holding the project independently," the Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.

Russia and the United States have been cooperating in work aboard the International Space Station (news - web sites) since it was launched in 1998.

After the US grounded its shuttle program following the 2003 Columbia disaster Russian rockets were left as the only way to ferry people and supplies to and from the ISS.

Following Bush's speech, NASA (news - web sites) chief Sean O'Keefe spoke by phone with his counterpart at Rosaviakosmos to assure him that the Americans had no intention of withdrawing from the ISS.

"O'Keefe said that there was no talk of NASA withdrawing from the ICC," the Russian agency's spokesman told RIA Novosti.

[Neophyte]

Of course they are rightfully included... but not by your logic. You contradict yourself... and try to be as slippery as a New Zealand eel.

[RusIvan]

You contradict yourself... and try to be as slippery as a New Zealand eel.===

No. I disagreed with Boris when he tried to include casaulties of one test fire accident into space losses.
But I agree from start that those who died during space flight even on route to home included in space losses.
I remember what I said.

[boris]

"Sir with all due respect. You already did few mistake just in this thread but you may did it intentionaly so:). You called the main engine of Buran as RD0120. But Buran doent have main engine. The main engine of Energy rocket is according source is RD-170."

Since the RD-170s perform the same function on Energyia as the solids do on the Shuttle, they are referred to as "boosters". The main engines are (respectively) SSME on the shuttle and RD-0120 on the Energyia.

You called Buran is carbon copy of Shuttle. But any common sense man understands that none can carbon copy the machine of such complexity basing just of outdated or maybe misleading blueprints which one got through FOIA request. If you competent specialist then you have not to make such mistakes."

The shape is the same. The main engines the same. The re-entry tiles the same. They even copied the trajectory so that the shock pattern around the vehicle would be the same. The fact is: the U.S. taxpayer paid for the R&D; the Russians (==Soviets) picked it up for nothing and used it.

"I don't even mention that you call Soviet Union as Russia:) which no educated man does."

The people who invented the Potemkin Village should not lecture us on names. The Soviet Union is not gone; it has temporarily morphed into something it is pleased to 'sell' as "Russia".

"BTW I agree that specialists of NASA or Boeing after maybe 10-15 years of research might copy that engine RD-180."

No comment, for a variety of reasons.

--Boris

[RusIvan]

Since the RD-170s perform the same function on Energyia as the solids do on the Shuttle, they are referred to as "boosters". The main engines are (respectively) SSME on the shuttle and RD-0120 on the Energyia. ==

Ok I found ref on RD-0120 in ENCYCLOPEDIA ASTRONAUTICA: http://april.friends-partners.ru/partners/mwade/engines/rd0120.htm ..
But nothing on that on web site of BURAN: www.buran.ru and in RUNet.
Known fact that Buran didn't have main rocket engine. It had aviation engine for manuevering in athmosphere.
SO maybe there was project which never ended.

The people who invented the Potemkin Village should not lecture us on names. The Soviet Union is not gone; it has temporarily morphed into something it is pleased to 'sell' as "Russia". ==

I didn't invent Potemkin Village. It was duke Potemkin in 18 century to mislead his emperatress Ekaterina II. BTW she was born german princess so she was western.
And I do not wish to lecture you. But if you don't know history of Russia or Soviet Union then you make that obvious mistake.
Soviet Union was antirussian state created by bolshevicks the winners of Civil war 1917-22 against russian nationalistic movement(White Movement).
The members of lost White Movement immigrated to West. Many came into United States. That is why today you may find russian church almost at any american large city. Some of those russian immigrants made big investment into american life.
FOr example the founder of helicopter company Sicorskii was Andrei Sikorskii the russian immigrant.
If you ask those people about Soviet Union they will tell you same thing. SOviet Union wasn't Russia. Russia is what we have before 1921 and after 1991.