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Eager to Go to Mars, Scientists Offer Cautious Praise for Bush Plan
SPACE.com via Yahoo ^ | Wed, Jan 14 2004 | Robert Roy Britt

Posted on 01/15/2004 9:55:18 AM PST by RightWingAtheist

President Bush (news - web sites)'s plan to return humans to the Moon as a stepping stone to Mars was applauded today by many scientists eager to unlock the geological and biological secrets of the red planet.

Some scientists said federal money would be better spent on robotic exploration. Many others are concerned how an planned shift of existing NASA (news - web sites) funds might impact non-human space exploration, including the fate of the Hubble Space Telescope (news - web sites).

At a press conference at NASA Headquarters in Washington, D.C. this afternoon, Bush called for robotic lunar missions later in the decade and a return of astronauts there between 2015 and 2020, with one goal being "an extended human presence" on the lunar surface.

A human mission to Mars would take place at an unspecified time thereafter, Bush said, when the necessary technology is in place and financing allows.

"This sounds like a lot of fun," said Ken Edgett, a geologist at Malin Space Science Systems, which operates the camera on the orbiting Mars Global Surveyor. "But Mars is again way off in the future. I think there's going to be a lot of Mars-types that are going to be disappointed by it, that we can't just go right to Mars. But you do have to crawl before you can walk."

NASA's budget is $15.5 billion for 2004. That amounts to $86 billion over five years. Bush called for an additional $1 billion during that time. He also wants $11 billion to be reallocated, mostly from existing human spaceflight efforts, to support new vision. Existing agency funding would be redirected gradually from the shuttle and space station programs which, together, consume about $5 billion a year.

NASA funding would remain less than one percent of the overall $2.2 trillion in federal spending.

"Human beings are headed into the cosmos," Bush said.

Robots vs. humans

For at least two decades, scientists will have to continue examining Mars through the eyes of robots. Bush lauded robotic efforts but said, "We need to see and examine and touch for ourselves."

While some experts argue human spaceflight is simply not cost effective, geologists generally saw the president's extended timeframe as a reasonable approach to mounting an effective humans-to-Mars plan.

Automated probes have for decades searched for signs of Martian water, the key ingredient to life as we know it. Scientists suspect but have not confirmed that ancient Mars at times contained rivers of water, as well as lakes or oceans. Firm evidence, gathered by robots, would guide the first human explorers.

"Ultimately it will probably will require a human presence on Mars to get into the details of the ancient past on Mars," said Bob Craddock, science advisor to the under secretary for science at the Smithsonian Institution (news - web sites).

Robots are a valuable tool for exploration, all scientists agree, but Craddock and others think they are inferior to astronauts in terms of speed and in grasping what's been observed and judging what to do next.

NASA's Spirit rover on Mars will, over the course of its three-month mission, do "what an astronaut could do in a day," Craddock told SPACE.com. "The science return for putting a person on Mars is exponentially better than a robot."

Craddock was told the details of Bush's speech early Wednesday.

"It filled me with emotion," he said. "It's really a very rational plan for doing this. Before it was only a dream. Now we have an actual plan."

Craddock is concerned, though, that scientists back on Earth might not get enough funding to analyze the bounty of data that would result from geologists investigation other worlds. Already, he said, NASA does not spend enough to help researchers paw through the data beamed back by Mars probes.

"They really need to start pouring more money into the research programs to analyze the data," Craddock said. "They've been very stingy with it."

Stay home

Robert Park, a physicist at the University of Maryland and director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society, does not think Bush's plan makes scientific sense.

"Aside from grand adventure, he has not given any reasonable explanation as to why we're doing it. These are not specific reasons. They're kind of the 'vision' reasons, but there's nothing concrete there."

Park thinks the plan's lack of specifics will make it hard to persuade Congress to go along with the cost.

"If I were in charge -- and there are many people who are glad that I'm not -- the first thing I'd do is lay down an absolute rule that no human being set foot on Mars," Park said.

His hard rule would be motivated by science. If the goal of Mars research is to look for life, Park thinks it is wrongheaded to send living beings there to do the looking. "The human being is essentially a bagful of organisms," he points out. The risk of contamination is high, and might ruin any chance of knowing whether bugs found were Martian or terrestrial. For Park, this is elementary science.

"We don't stick our finger into a liquid to see what the temperature is, we put a thermometer," he said.

Park estimates robotic exploration costs about 1 percent of the price of sending humans.

The White House plan, detailed in internal documents, also mentions the possibility of sending humans to asteroids or moons of Jupiter. The president did not expand on these possibilities but did declare that the Moon would be a way station for Martian excursions and trips to "places beyond."

Park contends that Mars is about the only place beyond the Moon that humans can go. Other planets and moons, as well as asteroids, present problems with extreme temperatures and radiation, or in some cases crushing gravity. So, he said, it makes more sense to take whatever might eventually go into a manned Mars mission and put it toward robotic exploration of many targets in the solar system.

Park is a big fan of the Spirit rover on Mars.

"We've got a geologist on Mars right now and he's doing a great job," Park said. "If we put a human there, he's locked in a spacesuit, he has no sense of touch. There's not much to hear on Mars. All he's really got is a sense of sight. And the eyes we've got on Mars right now are better than any human eyes."

Inspiring science

Other scientists think putting geologists on Mars makes sense on several levels.

"It's good for science, but it's good for this country in a lot of ways," said Rick Chappell, a 25-year NASA employee, veteran of a space shuttle flight, and now director of the Dyer Observatory at Vanderbilt University.

"The Bush initiative has great potential in exciting our future scientists and engineers, that is our students, to make a choice of exploration as a career, which is something they haven't been doing enough recently," he said. Chappell's own choice to pursue science was heavily influenced by President John F. Kennedy's original call to go to the Moon, he said.

Since the end of the Apollo era, that direction and inspiration has been lost, many scientists and space analysts agree. Chappell asks freshmen science students what they hear their country saying to them about exploration.

"They look at me like I'm sort of nuts," he said.

Chappell would like to see more money devoted to exploration and quicker time frames for getting humans out there, but he understands there are other concerns. Going to the Moon in preparation for getting to Mars is logical scientifically, inspirationally and because of the technology that will be developed in the process, he said.

Moon science

The interim goal of exploring the Moon more thoroughly offers its own scientific opportunities.

The Moon has almost no weathering or geologic activity, so its rocks and dust are ancient.

Scientists say detailed exploration by humans could confirm that the Moon was indeed carved from Earth when a Mars-sized object slammed into our planet shortly after its formation. Rocks booted from Earth to the Moon, long ago by asteroid impacts, offer the only source of information about Earth's early geology.

Evidence suggests there is water frozen in permanently shaded lunar craters, near the poles. It could be broken down into hydrogen, to fuel a rocket trip to Mars, and oxygen to support lunar visitors.

Some analysts say exploring the Moon and developing the means to put people on Mars would help keep America at the forefront of technology.

"Realistically this seems quite well thought out," Chappell said of the overall vision the president presented.

Concern for other programs

Astronomers are concerned about the details of how Bush's plans will be funded.

Bush did not outline any major changes to the robotic portion of NASA's budget. An internal White House statement obtained by Space News and SPACE.com says NASA would remain committed to expenditures in aviation, education and Earth science.

"Robotic missions will serve as trailblazers" to putting humans on Mars, Bush said today.

Congressional sources told Space News, however, that NASA officials have said the refocusing would affect science programs not related to the new vision. No specifics were given but one source said, "The rate of growth for the science budget will be slowed down."

Funding for NASA space science -- which includes robotic missions to the planets and the Hubble and Chandra space telescopes but not satellites studying the Earth -- has jumped significantly in recent years after a decade of fairly flat spending. In 2000, space science received $2.2 billion, compared to $4 billion for 2004.

Kevin Marvel, an astronomer and spokesman for the American Astronomical Society, said the lack of details provided by the president left his colleagues anxious about whether space science funding would be cut or go flat.

Marvel is also concerned that Bush's call to devote the shuttles to building the space station and to retire shuttle fleet in 2010 would eliminate any chance of servicing Hubble, either to extend its life or even possibly improve it. Past shuttle missions have repaired the orbiting observatory and even installed a new and better camera.

Unique view

Ken Edgett, the geologist at Malin Space Science System, has been studying Mars intently for the past six years. And loves his work but is doomed to short-term frustration.

Edgett and his colleague, Mike Malin, have presented several Mars Global Surveyor images suggesting Mars was once warmer and wetter -- a place that might have been conducive to life. But their evidence is not yet convincing. This month he has also been watching enticing pictures roll in from NASA's Spirit rover on Mars.

"Most of us look at those pictures and think, 'Geez, I just want to walk out there,'" Edgett said today.

He does not expect robots to resolve most of the mysteries of the red planet.

"The only way we're ever going to understand Mars and its history is to have people there doing the work," Edgett said in a telephone interview.

Mars presents a rich geologic record in layered rock, just like on Earth. It is complex and will take "hundreds of geologists a century of digging around to figure out what that history is," he said.

"We're just sort of seeing the books and reading the titles on their spines," Edgett said. "We need to crack open those books and read the pages."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: mars; nasa; robertpark; science; space

1 posted on 01/15/2004 9:55:20 AM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: RightWingAtheist
Robert Park, [NUTTY TALIBAN OF SCIENCE AT AMERICAN PHYSICAL SOCIETY] a physicist at the University of Maryland
and director of the Washington office of the American Physical Society,
does not think Bush's plan makes scientific sense.

Osama and Saddam did not like the Iraq Liberation. Then again, neither did Park.

China does not like SDI. Then again, neither does Park.

So like. who cares what the established and documented Luddite-against-American security cares, anyway?

2 posted on 01/15/2004 10:00:56 AM PST by Diogenesis (If you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us)
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To: Diogenesis
I'm really torn on this issue. On the one hand, I very much support American returning to space in a committed and dedicated fashion, with real goals that will inspire the people. And the technological benefits of this effort will keep America in the forefront of the world in the century to come.

BUT, the money. More spending! We have massive debt already, that appears to be getting worse by the year, and we need to spend more money?! We need another massive government spending program? The War on Terror is going to last decades, and may very well require the invasion and occupation of other nations.

Can America really afford to fight the war on terror and embark on this aggressive initiative?
3 posted on 01/15/2004 10:07:56 AM PST by holo
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To: Diogenesis
I just knew you'd show up :-)
4 posted on 01/15/2004 10:13:23 AM PST by RightWingAtheist
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To: RightWingAtheist
"We don't stick our finger into a liquid to see what the temperature is, we put a thermometer," he said.

Then why do we have human scientists in laboratories? Wouldn't it be better to have robots doing the work?

5 posted on 01/15/2004 10:18:30 AM PST by Pan_Yans Wife (He who has never hoped can never despair.)
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To: RightWingAtheist
What I have always wondered is..what do the astronauts DO when they GET to Mars? Collect dirt samples?
6 posted on 01/15/2004 10:21:54 AM PST by Windsong
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To: RightWingAtheist

Eager to Go to Mars, Scientists Offer Cautious Praise for Bush Plan

Should read: "Eager to Continue Swilling at the Taxpayer Funded Trough, Nerds with PhD.s and No Marketable Skills Praise Bush's Wealth Transfer Plan"

7 posted on 01/15/2004 10:22:21 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: holo
BUT, the money. More spending!

Right! Equivalent to half a Happy Meal EVERY YEAR for each person, each child. Taking food out of the mouths of babies!

$1 billlion here, such wailing and whining! $400 billion for pills over there, nothing.

8 posted on 01/15/2004 10:28:08 AM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: holo
Can America really afford to fight the war on terror and embark on this aggressive initiative?

Part of fighting the war against the Soviet Union was embarking on an agressive space mission. We spent much more on defense back in those days than we do currently- even with the 87 billion figured in.

The US can do whatever it sets its mind to.

In short, to answer your question- yes, it can be done.

9 posted on 01/15/2004 10:44:24 AM PST by Prodigal Son
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To: RightWhale
$1 billlion here, such wailing and whining! $400 billion for pills over there, nothing.

First it will probably be closer to $1 trillion not $400 billion for pills, and second there was plenty of wailing. Would it make you feel better to know that I think the farm bill and the medicare sell out by Bush are even worse than his proposed space boondoggle?

10 posted on 01/15/2004 11:08:15 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy, and Bush is no conservative)
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To: from occupied ga
the farm bill and the medicare sell out by Bush are even worse than his proposed space boondoggle?

Nobody is going to spend $1 trillion to go to Mars unless there is an asteroid coming to hit earth and that is the only way to save 500 Congressmen and their mistresses.

11 posted on 01/15/2004 11:15:11 AM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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To: Prodigal Son
I agree, India, China, The EU and Russia as well as Japan have announced a space program to the moon and Mars.
I believe it would be just as exciting as it was when the Moon landing was televised. Something to cheer about. Those are long term projects. If we elect not to participate, we will be behind the rest of the world for a long time.
What people also forget is the tremendeous technological advances we have obtained through our Space program. What seems commonplace today, was invented because we did take those steps.
12 posted on 01/15/2004 11:39:32 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: americanbychoice
we will be behind the rest of the world for a long time

Long time? If they ever get the upper hand they will come over here, kill the men, capture the women for wives, and the children for slaves. They will wonder sometimes why we didn't do that to them when we had the chance, but it won't keep them awake nights.

13 posted on 01/15/2004 11:43:36 AM PST by RightWhale (How many technological objections will be raised?)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

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