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Many see Bush immigration proposals as non-starter (Proposal Faces "Fierce" Resistence In House)
Reuters ^ | 01.07.04 | Alan Elsner

Posted on 01/07/2004 2:27:14 PM PST by Pubbie

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush dived into a heated political debate on Wednesday by proposing to create a class of legal "guest workers" in the United States, but analysts said it was doubtful the blueprint could gain congressional approval in this election year.

In a carefully balanced speech, Bush proposed giving some of the estimated 8 million to 14 million illegal immigrants in the country a way to gain three-year temporary work permits, but offered them no clear path to becoming U.S. citizens.

"Our laws should allow willing foreigners to enter our country and fill jobs that Americans are not filling. We must make our immigration laws more rational and more humane," Bush declared.

The proposal seemed calculated to win Bush Hispanic support ahead of the November presidential election while pleasing employers looking for workers to fill mainly manual, agricultural or low paid service jobs.

"The hype and misinformation that this speech will fuel in the immigrant community will be huge. Unfortunately, the excitement will far outweigh the real effect," said Jeff Goldman, an immigration lawyer with Testa, Hurwitz and Thibeault in Boston.

Bush was at pains to declare he was not offering amnesty for people who entered the United States illegally, but opponents of making concessions to the immigrants said that was exactly what he had done.

"This clearly is an amnesty. It provides not only amnesty but a reward for people who committed a felony by coming here illegally," said Rep. Elton Gallegly, a California Republican.

"There will be substantial opposition from Republicans, Democrats and millions of ordinary Americans once they realize what's involved," Gallegly told Reuters.

CAUTIOUS BACKING

While the proposals won some cautious backing from Hispanic groups and immigration backers, some analysts were doubtful that Bush would put much political muscle behind them in the face of fierce opposition from many in his own Republican political base.

"I don't think it's serious. Bush knows the politics. These proposals don't go far enough for most Democrats and they go too far for around 70 to 100 Republicans in the House of Representatives," said Steven Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors more stringent limits on immigration.

"Republican leaders in Congress won't want to bring up this issue, especially this year, because it divides them. Unless Bush twists their arms hard, this is going nowhere," he said.

Legal and illegal immigration to the United States, already at record levels in the 1990s, accelerated further after 2000 despite the economic slowdown, according to U.S. Census data.

From 2000 to 2002, net immigration to the United States averaged around 1.4 million per year, about half a million of whom entered or stayed in the country illegally.

Bush, who won around 35 percent of the Hispanic vote in 2000, would like to raise that proportion to 40 percent or higher this year. Even if he does nothing to push the proposals, the President will be able to incorporate them into his campaign message aimed at Hispanics.

"This makes no sense except political sense. It reeks of bad policy but screams of politics," said David Ray, assistant director of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, a group campaigning for sharply reduced levels of immigration.

FAIR argued that the plan undermined homeland security, granted an amnesty for law-breakers, established a back door immigration program and threatened the jobs and wages of American workers.

On the other side of the debate, immigration backers were disappointed that the plan offered no clear path for illegal immigrants to become citizens.

"The initial proposal falls short in helping newcomers become fully integrated into our society, but we look forward to working with the administration and Congress to shape the final legislation," said Leonard Glickman, president of the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society, the country's oldest migration organization.


TOPICS: Extended News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; guestworker; guestworkers; immigrantlist; immigration
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To: CIBGUY
With this program.. AFAICS.. it is the companys that will get hit if they don't document.. Watch for lots of Perp Walks.. and fines (al la Walmart).. That will put this program in TURBO mode.. Say $5000 per un-documented alien worker per day of violation..???

Maybe a good start.. Money talks..

101 posted on 01/07/2004 4:30:45 PM PST by glowworm
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To: futureceo31
You make my second point. If they Repubs DO stop this travesty, they'll be painted as anti-immigration racists.

You know it is coming. Bush plopped one right in the middle of the punch bowl with this one. He placed his own party on the horns of a dilemma.
102 posted on 01/07/2004 4:37:10 PM PST by IGOTMINE (All we are saying... is give guns a chance!)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
That makes me think that Bush once again was underestimated. He probably knew that Congress wouldn't go for this. I wonder if the House and Senate will both gain Republican seats due to this issue alone?

You mean gains in Congress because people like the Bush program and want to elect Republicans to get it passed or because people don't like the program and will vote Republican to get it blocked?

103 posted on 01/07/2004 4:38:52 PM PST by bam
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To: Pubbie

104 posted on 01/07/2004 4:41:18 PM PST by Main Street (Stuck in traffic.)
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To: 1stFreedom
It would be reasonable to suspect that this is a major purpose of Bush's proposal. I'm still against it.
105 posted on 01/07/2004 4:45:24 PM PST by Little Ray (Why settle for a Lesser Evil? Cthuhlu for President!)
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To: glowworm
"I would rather allow college students to gather produce instead of them being drawn into the Web porn industry to get through their education..
The "Summer Vacation" was originally implemented to allow school students free to work on agriculture.. Seems it would be a better deal.. all around.. and help with college costs and walk around money. Schools could be ajourned during picking time for that exact purpose.?"

As nice as that sounds. I'm not really convinced that you'd find a lot of willing college students who would rather live on their parents dime or work at a local air conditioned restaurant or theater actually wanting a job like fruit picking.

Convince me that kids from moderate income families would want to go pick fruit from a a sunny field when they could be working at a retail store, restaurant, or theater instead?
106 posted on 01/07/2004 4:47:34 PM PST by Tempest
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To: Pubbie
Bush couldn't pry a vote out of me with that missing Mega Millions lotto ticket.

So hell. Go full hog, Mr. Libr'al Dubya. Heck, you might as well make a big deal out of pushing for and signing the assault weapons renewel.

Ya can't lose my vote twice, after all.

107 posted on 01/07/2004 4:50:04 PM PST by Lazamataz (I stole this tagline from Conspiracy Guy. I beat him up and took it. That's because I can.)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
That makes me think that Bush once again was underestimated. He probably knew that Congress wouldn't go for this.

Yeah, just like he knew that Campaign Finance Reform would be overturned by the SCOTUS.

Look, lets face it. Bush is a flaming liberal.

108 posted on 01/07/2004 4:51:35 PM PST by Lazamataz (I stole this tagline from Conspiracy Guy. I beat him up and took it. That's because I can.)
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To: Tempest
How is it an amnesty??? Could someone elaborate on the details of how this plan would lead to amnesty?

Thanks for the easy one! ILLEGAL now, poof, LEGAL, Amnesty! Not very elaborate I know, but extremely accurate. Blackbird.

109 posted on 01/07/2004 5:06:44 PM PST by BlackbirdSST
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To: Tempest
Perhaps, it is the section of the Country that wouldn't do this.. Since my granddaughter worked through the Holiday season lugging incoming merchandise in a K-Mart.. (heavy sweaty work..).. I guess she, (Junior in High School and a College bound A+ student) is not typical of the average child, you say. (I always have believed that , thanks for the confirmation of my opinion +++).
110 posted on 01/07/2004 5:09:58 PM PST by glowworm
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To: futureceo31
Its all calculated...No one said Bush isnt smart.

There is a side of me that believes it is --- that this is all a game of sorts --- but why? Why risk losing votes? Illegals can only vote if there is major election fraud going on. Bush can't be honest if he's hoping to win an election by fraud. I realize the Bush-Gore election was very close --- but I would think Bush would instead be attempting to clean up the elections.

111 posted on 01/07/2004 5:15:45 PM PST by FITZ
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To: tracer
"And methinks the Dems are about to tumble into the ole briar patch...."

And methinks you are correct.

If the democrats don't smell danger here it's because they are too stupid to see it. This could prove to be a very dangerous election year trap for them.

The republicans aren't gonna carry the water because they just don't believe in this crap.

If the demos want to carry the water, they have to make a public declaration of their alliance with the illegal advocacy groups. This puts them on the wrong side of the ball with the public. The last thing they want is a public debate about the issue. Voters could very well tag the dems as not only soft on security, unintelligible on the economy but also pro illegal immigration to boot (which they are).

Not good.

So, bottom line: It ain't gonna happen. If there is a public debate in congress, it can only lead to bad things for the dems. If the repubs make the sweep we think they are going to make in November, the entire issue will be framed in another light, one not favorable to illegal aliens and their supporters.

Strategery...

112 posted on 01/07/2004 5:20:07 PM PST by telebob
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To: bam
If the Republicans in Congress stand up and fight it, and the Democrats support it. My bet is that the Democrats will lose even more seats.
113 posted on 01/07/2004 5:21:10 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife (Freedom is a package deal - with it comes responsibilities and consequences.)
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To: Lazamataz
Bush has passed the ball back to Congress. Let Miller and Chambliss quash this. I think that is what Bush hopes will happen.
114 posted on 01/07/2004 5:26:51 PM PST by Pan_Yans Wife (Freedom is a package deal - with it comes responsibilities and consequences.)
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To: BlackbirdSST; Willie Green
"ILLEGAL now, poof, LEGAL, Amnesty!"

Exscuse me, but that wasn't very clear. Are you saying that people here on goverment issued temporary work visas are the same as an illegal immigrant that gets paid under the table and doesn't pay taxes???

Could you point out the part in President Bush's speech this morning that provided for a clear path to amnesty?

Or are you extrapolating based on no real evidence? I'd welcome an actual well reasoned response if you could conjure it up for me.

115 posted on 01/07/2004 5:28:52 PM PST by Tempest
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
Bush has passed the ball back to Congress. Let Miller and Chambliss quash this. I think that is what Bush hopes will happen.

I'm tired of Bush passing his responsibilities off to others. We got screwed on Campaign Finance Reform because of this trait of his. Because Bush would not step up to the plate, be a man and a leader, and stake out a principled stand, the NRA is now forbidden to inform voters of a candidates positions on guns 60 days before an election.

No, he gets no more passes from me on this sort of behavior. It's Clintonian.

116 posted on 01/07/2004 5:30:32 PM PST by Lazamataz (I stole this tagline from Conspiracy Guy. I beat him up and took it. That's because I can.)
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To: glowworm
Well your granddaughter sounds like someone to really admire and you sound like a proud grandparent. Congratulations.

But I would assume that here job at K-mart paid at least minimum wage if not slightly above that and was a local job that didn't require her to drive out to some farming community out in the middle of nowhere in order to recieve wages that are typically below minimum wage. Although I must digress and confess that a guest worker program would most likely force employers to pay a more competative wage.
117 posted on 01/07/2004 5:32:47 PM PST by Tempest
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To: Big Midget
Is it a conservative concept for companies to exploit illegal workers instead of employing legal ones because it helps them make money at the expense of the rest of America?

So I assume you are fully supportive of the Bush plan? It would resolve this problem, since the workers would no longer be illegal; the employers would have to pay at least minimum wage, and could not exploit the workers.

However, the issue to which I was reponding dealt with companies putting labor out to the lowest bidder. That is a time-honored practice, and the very heart of capitalism.

118 posted on 01/07/2004 5:37:16 PM PST by CA Conservative
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To: YankeeReb
If you were running a job such as asbestos removal, for example, and you didn't feel like paying extra $$$ for things like safety equipment and resparators who would you rather hire an american citizen with all the rights and protections afforded under OSHA and the EPA or an illegal mexican, who won't dare complain for fear of deportation?

So you are fully supportive of the Bush program also? Since these workers will not be here illegally, they can report such dangerous conditions or violations of the law by employers without fear of getting into legal trouble themselves.

You seem to be evaluating the proposed program (legal guest workers) by the same criteria as the current situation (illegal immigrants). The two are not the same.

119 posted on 01/07/2004 5:41:32 PM PST by CA Conservative
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To: futureceo31
It is not going to go through congress.

Yeah, just like CFR and Prescription Drugs never got through congress. Franklin Delano Bush leaned on the conservatives and got his way. They will not stand up to him no matter what he wants done.

Bush isn't stupid. That's an act to get people to underestimate him. He is cunning, ruthless, and so slick he makes Clinton look like an amateur. He will get what he wants here. The only question is can the conservatives modify the plan enough to minimize the damage this will do to the country.

120 posted on 01/07/2004 5:41:38 PM PST by SUSSA
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