[thoughtomator]

In 20 years, will there be any more US citizen engineers or programmers?

[RiflemanSharpe]

I see the issue of decent paying jobs being the one issue the rats can hurt Bush with.

[Thermalseeker]

India produces 67 percent more engineers and computer scientists each year than the U.S. does

Thanks to our wonderful Government Indoctrination Centers, uh, I mean skools......

[rit]

``We used to think that displaced workers, given new training, could move up the value chain,'' former U.S. Trade Representative Charlene Barshefsky said in an interview. ``There is now a question about whether that upward movement will be possible.''

This is a significant issue. IT professionals often work in specific fields (i.e., C#, Vbasic, Oracle Admin, ...etc). Technology changes and their skill sets are no longer meaningful. It used to be that job placement with retraining was possible. Now, however, retraining cast the IT professional at a disadvantage in that they have no on-the-job experience in that new field. Thus, more incentive to outsource overseas at cheaper rates. This is not going to be fixed anytime soon.

[Drango]

In an October speech to the Business Software Alliance in Washington Grove called for $1 billion in government spending to improve college-level science and math education, boost research and revive the technology infrastructure to keep jobs in the U.S.

Yet Intel slaps every high-tech American worker in the face by hiring H1-B foreigners.

[Mr. Bird]

In November, Dell Inc., the world's second-largest computer maker, said it would switch some corporate customer support calls from a call center in India to the U.S. after receiving customer complaints.

Having been labeled a "free traitor" here some time ago, I had my first personal run-in with outsourced U.S. jobs last week: American Express customer service. I figured it out because every rep was named Preet, Jugdesh, Zima, or some other Indian name.

The experience was horrendous. The essential failure, it seems, in outsourcing a customer service function is the cultural differences. A sharp service rep in the U.S. understands that customer is "always right". Of course, that's not really the case, but it's a mantra that U.S. businesses have successfully used for decades. The Indian reps tended to strike an educational pose: "that's just the way it is". There is no nuance to their communication skills. Yes, they speak and understand English. But they don't understand Americans

End result is that Amex is losing a very good, long-time customer. I'm sure I'm not the only one. It's possible that this market force could draw jobs back. And, if in the end the IT talent is just as inept, we'll see a similar migration back to our shores.

[JudgemAll]

I am sick and tired of people who say, as a concocted convenient protocriminal alibi, that there is nothing we can do.

YES WE CAN DO SOMETHING.

TAXES ON IMPORT. NO INCOME TAXES ON THOSE WHO EARN THEM WHILE WORKING ON EXPORT COMPANIES

WHEN OH WHEN ARE WE GOING TO STOP KILLING OUR VERY OWN GOVERNMENT EARNINGS AND EARNING POTENTIAL AT THE BENEFIT OF 3rd WORLD NATIONS AND OTHER IDIOTS!!!!!!

[A. Pole]

As the cost for payment collection falls, airlines are now able to chase delinquent accounts they once had to ignore. And data entry or call-center employees in India are not only cheaper, they're more motivated than their U.S. counterparts, the study found.

Collection agency employees in India are more motivated, more aggressive? Do they have easier access to the personal data?

[Feldkurat_Katz]

Ballmer's Solution

To answer the challenge, Microsoft Chief Executive Steve Ballmer last month said in New York that the U.S. must churn out more math and science graduates. That would raise the supply of computer engineers -- and push down their salaries to about $50,000 a year, he says. That's about what the average U.S. high school teacher earns.

Lowering U.S. salaries would make sending jobs to India less likely because ``the whole economics of that proposition starts to look quite a bit different,'' Ballmer said in a recent speech.

Speaking of "economics of that proposition", here we have Microsoft's CEO making an elementary mistake! Nobody is forced or predestined to study computer science; if the salaries came down to 50 k per year, smart young people would study something else instead, e.g. mechanical or chemical engineering, both of which would offer better pay. Heck, if computer engineers earned the same as teachers, then why bother to study computer engineering? It takes less effort to get an education degree, the knowledge does not become obsolete in three years and the job security is greater.

As always, you get what you pay for: in Steve Ballmer's world computer engineers would not only be cheaper but also dumber as smarter guys would have gone elsewhere.

[LoudRepublicangirl]

They will need to resource taxpayers to India because there won't be any of us left either.

[Lael]

Lawmakers Can't Arrest U.S. Job Shift to India to Lower Costs

Oh!, I don't know about that...give me a couple of nights to DREAM up some ways...

By 2008, even the Republicans will rush to reregulate this fiasco!!!

See the Tradeorg website...some of the ways they list for reviving Manufacturing sound pretty punative.

[Ciexyz]

Great, there's a great new service industry--helping US companies outsource jobs overseas.

[RussianConservative]

U.S. workers who aren't designing computer chips or answering telephones will be working on the next level of high technology, such as nanotechnology, the science of manipulating atoms or molecules for commercial application, Commerce Department Undersecretary Phillip Bond said in an interview

Pie in sky...that is all. America is on way to personal Communist Experience, one closed factory at time.

[chimera]

Many services jobs, including most in health care and education, can't be done overseas.

Health care's time is coming, too. Already many functions of the in-office radiologist are going overseas. Just transmit the picture to Dr. Sanjeeb in Bangalore to look over and render an opinion on. He'll work for a third of what Dr. Wilson in the US will. Sorry, Doc, go work at Mac's.

Who will take the picture? Well, how about an automated system? I saw an article the other day that described what was almost like a self-service MRI. The patient arrived at the office and a minimum-wage orderly told them where to go and what to do. The patient presented himself to the MRI machine, which had been remotely programmed in Bangalore by Dr. Sanjeeb's assistant, a med-tech who works for maybe a tenth of what a US technician would cost. The machine tells the patient what to do, how to lie down, when to hold his breath and when to breathe again. All monitored remotely in Bangalore. If there is a mishap or a question, Dr. Sanjeeb's assistant comes on the speaker phone and tells the patient what to do.

The final evolution may be the "robot" surgeon I was on the TV just today. It was not really a robot, but a surgical machine operated by a "remote presence", including audio, visual, and tactile feedback. A remotely-located surgeon stuck his hands into some manipulator gloves, and the machine mimicked his every move. So here is a vision of the future: for 10% of the local cost, Dr. Sanjeeb in Bangalore does your surgery by remote control. No need for domestic medical professionals. Cheaper and "better" to do it overseas.

So all those on FR and elsewhere who cheer the disappearance of so-called "meaningless" jobs from the domestic economy, who praise the "free market" for making such wonders possible, all I can say is, be careful for what you wish for and cheer for. The throat you cut may be your own one day.

[nmh]

``Not only are Indian companies a third of the cost, but they actually are better,''

Just in case someone thinks they are not replaceable - THINK AGAIN! YOU ARE! It's been going on for atleast 15 years so CHANGE your jobs if you work in technology. Why wait till the last nanosecond and get laid off?

If you really do NOT want to change your job, then move to a country that is doing the outsourcing. Be aware though, you will have competition and may not get the job there.
Law makers cannot save your jobs! It is also not their role to require people to keep you in your profession.

[MissAmericanPie]

So far, and only temporarily, we have a weapon. We are the worlds largest consumers. If we refuse and boycott products from overseas we can force them back to the USofA.

The horse feathers we have been sold for decades under the pretense of compassion, is that we should raise the boats of the rest of the world. They left out the little detail that to do that we must sink beneath the waves in suicidal self sacrifice.

It's time to put a padlock on the old pocket book.

[Ed_in_NJ]

Time for the US workforce to 'stop spending, start saving.'

Instead of a new car every 3-5 years, drive the current one into the ground; no new technology/convenience items - make do with what is already there; learn skills to fix things (car and home) - it makes sense when you're earning $12 an hour and the fix-it outfit is charging $75.

[Jhoffa_]

U.S. workers who aren't designing computer chips or answering telephones will be working on the next level of high technology, such as nanotechnology, the science of manipulating atoms or molecules for commercial application, Commerce Department Undersecretary Phillip Bond said in an interview.

What gives this person the idea that the "next level of high technology" will be created here either?

In addition, Mr. Greenspan's comment, "New jobs will replace old ones, as they always have" is similar in nature..

What exactly makes him believe that these "new" jobs will be created here? Blind faith in Free Market ideology?

[SC oops]

Who will purchase a computer when the people who build them can not afford to buy one ?