The Anti-Father Police State

MensNewsDaily.com ^ | December 23, 2003 | Stephen Baskerville

[longtermmemmory]

I would also mandate DNA for all out of wedlock births. I also would eliminate the presumption of paternity in marriage if during a divorce a paternity test proves the child is not the natural father.

In other words, infidelity and promiscuity SHALL have consequences.

Fatherhood is not fungible.

[Zack Nguyen]

Give me a break.

[longtermmemmory]

vasectomies should not be considered reversable. It is not just a matter of reconnecting the plumbing. The body also builds antibodies to the sperm after a vascectomy.

It is also supposed to be painful.

[Nick Danger]

There are several cheap and effective male contraceptives in clinical trials right now. I shudder to think what is going to happen to the birth rate in this country (and throughout the West) when these pills become available.

As bassmaner says in #9, these policies are ruinous. You can't just keep sticking it to people and expect them to roll over for it. There will be consequences to these policies, and they will eventually unhinge the whole society.

[TheSpottedOwl]

I would also mandate DNA for all out of wedlock births. I also would eliminate the presumption of paternity in marriage if during a divorce a paternity test proves the child is not the natural father.

Not to mention lifting the time limit to obtain a DNA when some long lost kid "turns up".

In other words, infidelity and promiscuity SHALL have consequences.

But, but, but...that's morality! What about separation of church and state? /sarcasm

[Orangedog]

It is also supposed to be painful.

Not nearly as painful as a vengeful woman using your own kids and the full power of the government against you.

[the invisib1e hand]

G.K. Chesterton argued that the most enduring check on government tyranny is the family.

...which explains the Nanny/Butch-government's war on the family.

sometimes a guy just wants to crawl into a hole...but no freakin' way.

[the invisib1e hand]

Not nearly as painful as a vengeful woman using your own kids and the full power of the government against you.

...nods...

[dennisw]

Good one!!!

[Orangedog]

What surprizes me is that we haven't had the usual "You can't do that...we'd either become extinct or over-run by foreigner!" argument thrown up at anyone who thinks opting out of this nonsence is just "stupid."

Most people go along with these laws and courts that screw fathers because they bought the lie that it would save them money in welfare. And they still keep believing it even though the government spends more and more money every year. The truth is, none of them will care until it happens to them.

[Nick Danger]

The truth is, none of them will care until it happens to them.

By now, just about everyone either knows someone, or has a relative, that this has happened to. This thread is so different from what a comparable one would have been like ten years ago that I see tremendous progress.

What's happening here with the laws is a death spiral. If you map out the forces operating on it, you can quickly see that the only thing it can do is get worse. So the issue isn't how you turn that around, it's what you can do to warn younger men in time to keep them from getting caught up in it. I see a lot of progress there; all these articles we see about "why won't young men commit?" are evidence to me that the message is sinking in: "marriage and family" is not a safe thing to do with your life anymore. Men have zero rights, are guilty until proven innocent, and won't even get due process at that. So just stay away from it. Let the government have its fun with whomever they can suck into it, but men with brains should stay out of the target environment.

When these pills come out, that's going to be one more way to stay out of the target environment.

Yeah, we'll become extinct or the foreigners will take over. So what? A society that estranges fathers from their children on a wholesale basis collapses. If that comes as a surprise to anybody, it's because they either didn't really think of men as being human, or because they weren't thinking at all.

[Orangedog]

Yeah, we'll become extinct or the foreigners will take over. So what? A society that estranges fathers from their children on a wholesale basis collapses. If that comes as a surprise to anybody, it's because they either didn't really think of men as being human, or because they weren't thinking at all.

We agree totally on that. There are still plenty who, even knowing men that this has happened to, think that it will be different with them. A few weeks ago, one guy on another thread argued that men avoiding marriage was a "false trend" and wasn't really happening. It didn't sound like he could graduate from the School of the Bleeding-Obvious. The business of government is to grow. That means that BOTH parties have a vested interest in advancing the destruction of the family though demonizing fathers. When the pill for men hits the market, it will have an enormous impact on western society, particularly in the US. I wonder what lengths the government will go to in trying to stop it. At some point they would have to reccognize that this would cut into their ability to control tens of millions of men in the future.

[longtermmemmory]

I see a trend of men avoiding liberal women. In other words, look for more manless, childless 40 something women.

[SoulStorms]

And the women who are so glad that this machinery is in place to exact revenge upon their ex husbands will be in for a big and unpleasant surprize...

...when the state comes for their sons.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Easy answer to this one.

Guys:

Don't f**k.
Don't marry.

Yes, celibacy sucks. But, when "getting some" could very well cost you years of financial ruin and emotional turmoil, it becomes very easy to put into perspective.

[RogerFGay]

So basically what you're saying is that the most reasonable solution to the problem is the demise of the human race. Since the partisans declared war on the family, we should surrender, have no children from now one -- and as a result there will be no partisans due to the fact that there will be no people. That'll work.

[Nick Danger]

So basically what you're saying is that the most reasonable solution to the problem is the demise of the human race.

Oh now, don't go getting emotional on us. Nobody said anything about ending the human race. The human race will be fine. The particular culture that chose badly will be wiped from the Earth. That's happened to a lot of cultures that went bad. It's nothing to get excited about; this is how Nature works.

It's no accident that every significant civilization on the planet, regardless of race, religion, or any other thing, practices lifelong pair-bonding. Ours used to. Now we don't. Now we get to find out why the only cultures left standing were the ones that practiced lifelong pair-bonding. Something happens to the other cultures. They go away for some reason. Just think... we'll get to see how it happens.

[FLAMING DEATH]

Yep. It will.

If the market for men dries up, something will have to give, whether it is a change in the laws or perhaps women being more open to a prenuptual agreement. Most women aren't rabid feminists, and if they realize that the bitchy minority screwed things up for them, then things might begin to turn around. Until then, don't f**k and don't marry.

It is ALWAYS a bad idea to step into a boxing ring with both hands tied behind your back. You wouldn't take a monetary risk with such a high possiblitity of losing your money, your psychological well being, or even the right to see your own children. So, don't take an emotional risk like that, either.

Human race, shmooman race. That doesn't matter, and it won't happen anyway, since there will always be fools out there who don't care where they "dip their wick". Regardless, I'm not going to sacrifice my principles so I can be a cog in the wheel that keeps the human race moving "forward".

I'd like to have a family, but it's not worth the risk to me. That's not to say it won't happen, but I will be assured that I have my bases covered WELL before such an undertaking. But, the idea of a prenuptual agreement scares most women off, so the possiblity seems remote.

Besides, it is a good thing for men to be able to practice a little self control, and the words "child support" and "alimony" are as effective as any cold shower.

[IDontLikeToPayTaxes]

bttt

[RogerFGay]

If the market for men dries up, something will have to give, whether it is a change in the laws or perhaps women being more open to a prenuptual agreement.

If the market for men dries up? Now you're just talkin' crazy! Men are more valuable than ever. That's why we all need special laws that work like a security service. Walking around as if nothing has changed these days is like leaving diamonds on display in your front yard.