Flights From Paris to U.S. Cancelled

MSNBC | December 24, 2003

[jennyp]

France spooked the bad guys.....SAMN!

Maybe, maybe not. The article in 530 implies that the US pretty much forced France to cancel the flights. So maybe the anon. source in DHS was really complaining about whichever US agency told France that they wouldn't allow the flights to land:

The French apparently had no choice as to whether to allow the flights to take off. A spokesman for Raffarin said the United States had threatened to refuse the planes permission to land.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security had been meeting with French officials in recent days over concerns about a possible terrorist attack.

In Washington, one U.S. official who spoke on condition of anonymity said the U.S. government had been trying to keep the negotiations with France confidential, "hoping that we would be able to lure some of these people in."

The official said there was some frustration within the Department of Homeland Security that the flights were canceled, thus allowing the word to get out about the security concerns.

Although the 2nd to last paragraph above does sound more like he's frustrated with the French. We'll have to see if more statements of frustration get leaked.

[jwalsh07]

Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, et al

[nina0113]

Yep - looks like the last of the generation who appreciated us is gone. I would like to make ONE more trip to France - so I could listen to DeGaulle spinning in his grave. He recognized that French interests & American interests were not always the same, and naturally he pursued French interests, but I remember the story of his reaction during the Cuban Missile Crisis, when we offered to show him pictures of the missile sites. He said he didn't need to see them - if the United States said they were there, our word was enough.

[Semper Paratus]

A CNN reporter at LAX said a flight to Cincinnati was cancelled. Wonder why.

One of the Air France flights from Paris was to stop over in Cincinnati.

[clintonh8r]

DeGaulle also demanded (of LBJ, I think) that all US servicemen leave French soil. He was asked if that included the ones buried in it.

[livius]

Mexico/France: Delta code-shares with both Aero Mexico and Air France.

I live in the South, and I go in and out of Atlanta all the time. It's a huge airport, and Delta is a huge airline, with its other hub in Cincinnati.

I have always wondered why the AQ folks didn't realize that NYC was not the be-all and end-all. I was hoping they wouldn't find out, of course, but it seems now that they may have.

[Principled]

So what's the deal with Cincinnati?

The place they keep the guy that planned WTC '93 bombing is near there... but i'm not sure why they'd hit that place. What else is in those parts? Fort Knox? Chicago?Eerie canal???

[CWOJackson]

Hey, Patton never had to face an unarmed Green Peace boat like the French did.

Kind of ironic, France's greatest military trimuph of the last century was it's commando's sinking an unarmed ship and killing an innocent passenger.

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Troll! France bad enemy! New Horizon want French people DEAD!

Why do you write like this? Do you have some serious mental defect we should be aware of?

[clintonh8r]

They're savages when they're riled up!

[Brad’s Gramma]

LOL!!!

[singsong]

But let's say he was French anyway, because we're stupid and hate French people!

Yap, I'm stopit and hatfull. At least this is all I hear from Frenchmen. I can never understand why the 70% Muslims on the streats of Paris are smart and peaceful but the Americuns are stopit and hatfull? This must be something that only the brave and fearless practise.

[Indie]

Keep in mind it's not all AF flights, just some. Earlier intel said we had specific flight numbers?? Sounds like a good save to me...by us of course, not the French. Of course, what's to become of the listed passengers and crew? Free to go and attack another day most assuredly.

[TexKat]

Strange that AQ wants to hit LAX so badly....wonder what is up with that.

Its just not LAX. CNN reported a short while ago that flights over downtown Chicago are prohibited.

[Moose4]

I don't know about that. Two of the flights were 747-400s (the two direct to LAX) and the third was an Airbus A340-300, according to Air France's website. Even with low fuel, a 747-400 would be two to three times the weight of any of the four planes hijacked on 9/11, and an A340 is only slightly lighter.

That 747 would still probably weigh a good 300 tons when it got near LAX, and still be carrying 50,000 pounds or more of fuel. (I believe a fully-fueled 747-400 carries something like 278,000 pounds of jet fuel.) That hypothetical 747 would be carrying almost as much fuel as any of the 9/11 planes did just after takeoff, and twice the mass.

}:-)4

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

Conservative French freedom lovers are our buds.:-}

If true conservatives are less than 20% of the US population, I imagine they would be less than 2% of the population of France. Sacrebleau!

[Moose4]

If I read the Air France schedule right, AF382 doesn't stop over in Cincy and then proceed to LAX. It stops in Cincy and the passengers transfer to a Boeing 767-300, flying as Air France 8760 but actually operated by Delta (Delta and Air France codeshare flights). AF8760 goes from Cincy to LAX. I guess AF382 (an Airbus A340) turns back around at some point and heads back to de Gaulle.

So, assuming there would be some sort of 9/11-style attack, if they made their move after the connection, it would be on a fully-fueled B767-300, but not the big A340 that flew over from France.

}:-)4

[Mad_Tom_Rackham]

So the REAL solution is to weed out the Jews from the Bush Administration, eh? Bet you miss the useful purposes your philosophical brethren dreamed up in the 1940's. And don't forget, Arbeit Macht Frei.

[Bug]

A buddy of mine is a pilot for a major airline and returned from France today. He said he's never seen such tight security. Once they arrived at Newark, they were greeted by a SWAT team in the immigration area. The armed SWAT guys demanded to see everyone's passport in a business like manner. Luggage was pulled off the plane for a recheck, and the three Air Marshalls were very jumpy.

[jennyp]

Three of the flights were scheduled to depart Wednesday - two from Paris and one from Los Angeles. Air France gave the flight numbers as 68, 69 and 70.

The three other flights were scheduled to leave on Christmas Day - two from Los Angeles and one from Paris. Air France listed those flight numbers as 68, 69 and 71.

I'm trying to find the flights' schedules, and so far I can only come up with flights 68 & 69. (This data is from Travelocity, & Orbitz seems to have the same info.) Does anybody know what flights 70 & 71 are?

Flight #	Departs Los Angeles (LAX)	Arrives Paris (CDG)	Aircraft
69	7:00pm PST (4:00am in Paris)	5:40am PST (2:40pm in Paris)	Boeing 747
70	?	?	?
71	?	?	?

Flight #	Departs Paris (CDG)	Arrives Los Angeles (LAX)	Aircraft
68	1:35pm in Paris (4:35am PST)	3:05am in Paris (4:05pm PST)	Boeing 747
70	?	?	?
71	?	?	?