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To: Diogenesis; archy; section9
MOST interesting additional info regarding the armed nerve gas warhead.

Question that comes to mind: was it disarmed (can that be done once it's armed ?), or is nerve gas still within the weapon ?

Archy or Section9, can you help ?

235 posted on 12/13/2003 7:38:50 PM PST by happygrl
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To: happygrl
Question that comes to mind: was it disarmed (can that be done once it's armed ?), or is nerve gas still within the weapon ?

It looks like a 152mm or possibly a 155mm artillery piece projectile, the standard artillery projectile for the old Soviet Union's Warsaw Pact troops as well as the present-day Russian army. Note too though that Saddam was one of the earliest users of the Space Research Corporation's developments of long-range projectiles for the 155mm artillery piece, used to great effect against the Iranians during the Iraqi-Iranian war, and further developed by the Israelis and South Africans as the G5 long-range munitions for the 45-caliber barrel length 155 artillery pieces. Whether that could be a 155-mm shell in a Iraqi Soviet-type shipping container, a 152mm projectile of Warsaw Pact, Russian or Iraqi manufacture, or something else is difficult to determine without at least a scaled reference in the pic, and preferably, firsthand examination.

As to whether it's a chemical shell or *nerve gas projectile* it could be a white phosphorous chemical smoke round that hadn't yet received its chemical filler; or it could be a WP round that was adapted for use with a single-component chemical warfare filler, either earlier WWII compounds such as Taubin or Saran [GB or VX as designated in US literature, or even WWI era Nitrogen Mustard] or one of the more recent Soviet binary nerve agents, such as Novichok 5 or 7, which could be expected to be shipped less one of the components needed for the projectiles to be lethally effective, preventing accidents during shipment.

Short answer: If there's no chemical filler, it's relatively safe, though some residues can be harmful or lethal- and the fuze assempbly used to rupture the projectile has a small explosive charge, about like that of a hand grenade.

Another question is if whether it was intentionally shipped empty, with one component of a two-part lethal mixture, or filled and leaked during shipment.

In general, I'd expect Saddam's chemical weapons to have been used in larger quantities- half-ton Scud warheads and aircraft-delivered devices similar to aircraft droppable fuel tanks or Napalm cannisters. But the Soviets very much make use of 152mm chemical and nuclear] weapons, and so their having been supplied to Iraq either directly or via a third-party surrogate would not be particularly surprising.

More on 155mm artillery ammunition and projectiles *here,* including US M121A1, M122 and M687 nerve gas projectiles.

One other possibility: the Chinese 130mm projectiles for their M46 130mm gun. They've certainly developed a long-range projectile, and if that's been combined with a chemical warfare projectile, a likely possibility, it'd certainly be worthy of notice.

The first 130 mm field gun produced by China was the Type 59, a virtually direct copy of the Russian M-46. The Type 59 130mm gun, with maximum rate of fire is at 8-10 rds/min, fires an HE projectile capable of penetrating 250mm of armour set at 0 degree at a range of 1,500m. The Type 59 gun also fires enhanced range projectiles: the MP-130 RAP that weighs 33.4kg with a maximum range of 34,360m; and an ERFB HE that weights 32.7kg with a maximum range of 30km. The Extended Range Full Bore-Base Bleed round was specifically designed by NORINCO Industries (China) for use with the Chinese 130-mm Type 59 Field Gun. However, this round may be fired by the M-46.

Russian 152mm conventional round being loaded into a MSTA self-propelled artillery piece pic *here.*

-archy-/-

301 posted on 12/13/2003 9:49:25 PM PST by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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