Death of obese man (who assaulted police) ruled "homicide"

Fox News | 12/3/03 | Fox News

[zlala]

The Coroner just read a statement saying the direct cause of his death was the struggle with the police; or that them trying to subdue him and the struggle cause his death. Contributing factors included the drugs and his weight and heart condition.

[Helms]

Good Lord. Why would anybody try to combine angel dust and cocaine with White Castle Burgers?

Absolutely, this is death by cop. This was simply suicidal. He probably released so much adrenaline that his heart and obesity could not handle it.

[LADY J]

"I have yet to hear a momma or granny from da' hood who beleives their little boy is a gang-banging murdering junkie. They're either too stupid or hiding the guilt of getting knocked up and raising the boy wif no daddy."

Mostly they're looking for a 'big bucks' easy money law suit.

[CollegeRepublican]

Who would've thunk the Ravens capable of putting up 85 points in two games?

Not me, and I am a die hard Ravens fan. I just did not think we were capable of scoring like that.

[george wythe]

Ruling the death a homicide "should not be interpreted as implying inappropriate behavior or the use of excessive force by police," he said.

In other words, he was killed by the use of appropriate force by police. The cops acted the way they do every day, even though we don't have access to their daily videos on a regular basis.

The question now is, "Would the people of Cincinnati feel comfortable with their definition of 'appropriate' force?"

Instead of blaming the cops for following their training, the Cincinnati residents should either condone the status quo or provide new guidelines to the police.

Until then, I support the police on this incident.

[lepton]

That's the point. A drugged up person is going to keep coming at you. Even a shot to the foot would be better than beating somebody to death, don't you think?

He wasn't beaten to death. He was "upsetted" to death. ...And what makes you think that a shot anywhere non-critical would have stopped him where a series of nightstick jabs wouldn't? Did you see them keep hitting him after he stopped fighting them?

[Hildy]

I don't know, it just seems there outta be a better way to deal with these things.

[ican'tbelieveit]

I am going to bet that it has to do with elevated hormone levels in his blood that are indicative of a "fight or flight" response. And when you suffer a heart attack, there are other hormones released into the blood in response to that.

[WackyKat]

His heart stopped because of the irregular heartbeat. But what brought on the irreg heartbeat? What brought it on previously? Did the guy know this? And if he did, and it was the struggle, why should the cops take the rap? It's not like the perp had the info tattooed on his forhead.

I am trying to clarify for freepers what is going on here, but not having much success.

I have read plenty of coroner's autopsy reports- they are medical records, not legal documents

They make medical findings and conclusions, not legal ones

The coroner's conclusion that the struggle was a factor in the death and that the death was a homicide is a medical judgement, not a legal one

It deals only with the issue of the causation of the death, not whether the actions of the police were justified or whether they should "take the rap" for it.

[larry1939]

i don't believe in puting any group above others by law or practice.around here if you touch the uniform of an officer you have just molested him.is that above the common man?if they are that fearfull should they look for other work or just stay at the counter at the truck stop.it is a shame when even the elderly are uneasy when the police are present.no beating like that is justified.

[Hildy]

You can all stop defending this action. I didn't say the police didn't act correctly given what they had in this circumstance. It just seems to me that in this day and age there should be a weapon that would disable someone right away, that's all.

[Hillary's Lovely Legs]

Speaking of Big Bucks in an easy lawsuit.....

Family Files $750 Million Lawsuit In Death

This is about a fat shoplifter. We have several fat shoplifters on dope who die when the security guards confront them. The families always hire Geoffery Fieger to sue.

The victims are always the nicest folks, salt of the earth you know.

[Connservative]

The Ravens pulled one out of their @$$ against Seattle a couple of weeks ago.

Of course, my beloved Bengals pulled one out of their A$$ against the Steelers on Sunday with 1:05 left in the game.

It should be interesting Sunday.

WHO DEY!

[ican'tbelieveit]

Did you hear the presser by the coroner? He explained very well, at least to me, that the death was caused by stress. He commented that it could have happened at that moment regardless of what this guy was doing: fighting with the police, running down the street, in a road rage incident. Anything that would have increased the adrenaline in his system would have resulted in the exact same ending.

If you were the police officer that had a 350+lb man ripping into your head, what would your response have been?

And what if the police had not done anything and this guy attacked a bystander?

And if several officers on top of this guy using nightsticks to restrain him were being flopped around, do you really think a bullet wound to the foot would have stopped him. And again, if they would have shot him, the same result in the adrenaline in the system.

In regards to tranqs, no can do. Since those are based on body habitus, etc, that have to be calculated beforehand, there would be no way or time to figure this out.

[P-Marlowe]

He made a medical judgement as he should have, not a legal judgement.

If the coroner used the term "homicide" then it is a legal judgment and not a medical judgment. Homicide has a specific legal meaning and that meaning is that the death was directly caused by the actions of another human being. "The killing of a human being by another human being."

The fact that this man died in a struggle with the police does not mean that his death was the result of anything other than his own actions. If he had died of a head blow or died of internal injuries as the result of being hit by the officer's clubs, then it would be proper to say it was a homicide. But since his death was caused by his body's inability to deal with the overexertion caused by his struggle against a lawful detention, the term homicide is not applicable. The proper finding would have been death by natural causes as a result of personal overexertion.

To call this a homicide is reckless, especially in a community that is constantly on the edge of a race riot. This should be reviewed and if it is determined that it is not a homicide, then the coroner should be fired. To most uneducated people --like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton -- the term homicide is synonymous with murder.

[ican'tbelieveit]

I completely agree. But that goes to funding issues. And those tools are expensive.

[PBRSTREETGANG]

It just seems to me that in this day and age there should be a weapon that would disable someone right away, that's all.

"Set your phasers on stun, gentlemen."

[Calvin Locke]

You've got be crazy to smoke that stuff.

Is that formaldehyde? I once worked with a woman that swam at lunch. The toxicity proclamation came out and her
formaldehyde-containing, anti-chlorine shampoo went in to the trash.

I would have ruled "death by misadventure". Heck, I remember the Celtics fans crying over Len Bias and cocaine.

direct cause of his death was the struggle with the police; or that them trying to subdue him and the struggle cause his death. Contributing factors included the drugs and his weight and heart condition.

He has it backwards. "Direct cause was the drugs and his weight and heart condition. A contributing factor was the
over exertion in attacking the police. Another factor may or may not have been the failure to follow the
Atkins Diet in regard to all the starch in the White Castle hamburger buns."

I'd like to know where the coroner studied medicine, so I can avoid other graduates of that school.

[ican'tbelieveit]

They only had 4 choices though. Undetermined causes (they know why he died); Suicide (he didn't actually kill himself in the sense of shooting himself and even though he had drugs in his system, the coroner said it was not a lethal amt); natural causes (dying in your sleep); or homicide.

[luvbach1]

No evidence he was beaten to death; in fact, evidence to the contrary.

[xzins]

Thanks PM.

Everyone should see #114

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1033179/posts?page=114#114