Sacramento Considers "No Protest Zone" Near Abortion Businesses

LifeNews.com ^ | December 2, 2003 | Steven Ertelt

[nickcarraway]

Sacramento, CA (LifeNews.com) -- Prompted by some local leaders, the Sacramento County Board of Supervisors is considering a proposal that would place "no protest zones" around area abortion businesses.

One local abortion facility, Women's Health Specialists, already has a 20-foot zone in place thanks to an order issued by a local judge. Now county officials are considering extending similar anti-protest zones around all local abortion centers.

Three members of the board staged a press conference at the state capitol to announce their support for the idea.

"Those who wish to offer a different opinion are able to do so, but they are not going to be permitted -- under this ordinance -- to do so in a way that interferes with the legitimate exercise of an equally important right," Supervisor Roger Dickinson told KRCA-TV.

Since the late 1980's there have been no major protests in California, such as those groups like Operation Rescue organized in the past. In addition, none of the five protesters that were involved in the original lawsuit that led to the original 20-foot zone around Women's Health Specialists have protested abortions in two years and three of the five haven't participated in a protest in more than a decade.

That prompts pro-life attorneys to say there is no need for the protest free area.

"The buffer zone is useless due to the non-participation of those enjoined and [abortion] clinic employees are desperate," says Dana Cody, Executive Director of the Life Legal Defense Foundation.

"Enter three pandering county supervisors beholding to abortion zealots," Cody added. "Now we will waste county resources debating a dead issue."

Another pro-life attorney, Cyrus Zal, argues such a law would limit the free speech rights of pro-life protesters and would cost the county because of expected lawsuits against it.

The supervisors will vote on the issue next Tuesday. San Diego and San Francisco have similar no-protest zones in place.

[Augustinefan]

Just what I've been saying. Talk about redundant!

Actually, I think there have been more reports of Bigfoot here than protests in front of abortuaries.

Go Kings!

[Pedantic_Lady]

Rubbish---nowhere did I hide behind relativism.

I tried to let you off easy, but you're obviously begging for it.

With a name like "No King but Jesus," you're trying to tell ME that I'm relativist? I said that nobody was right, which is absolute. You are accusing me of being a relativist, where I was actually being the theoretical opposite of a relativist.

I'd send you a dictionary for Christmas if I had your address.

[Augustinefan]

I did put a + after the 35 mil, to my credit here.

I think I just get too depressed at the volume of lost talent. Imagine what fanatastic things may have been discovered or done if we had all those people back to bless the earth.

What's worse, look at how bad things are now and ask yourself this question: If the Islamic extremists are the ONLY society resisting birth control and abortion, how quickly will OUR society be outnumbered and overrun by those extremists?

Now I understand why the Popes have been so opposed to it all.

[Pedantic_Lady]

You're absolutely a relativist.

You could keep saying it until the day you die, but it would never be true.

[Augustinefan]

"There are some pro-life groups that work through churches, providing pre-natal care and help to pregnant women in desperate situations, proving that they actually care about these women and their unborn children. People who "protest" at abortion clinics are usually just zealous bullies."

Sometimes that it true. But most times we all work together very closely. At our counselling center in Southern California, we had one husband and wife team that stood in our parking lot (which was right next to the abortion clinic) and asked the girls as they approached the door of the abortuary if they knew what their baby looked like right now. Then, she would pull out a picture of an 8 to 12 week fetus. This woman was about 4' 10" and the most soft spoken woman I have ever met. She never threatened them, and often offered to let them come into the office for a drink while they waited for their appointment time. She was never derrogatory or inflamatory, and the gentleness of her manner was the key to our success.

On one such occasion, a girl was entering (from our parking lot which we never towed them out of) when she begged her to just stop and chat for a minute. Compassion and listening were her big "weapons". She spoke very kindly to the girl and suggested she at least consider her baby's future. Something struck this girl and she agreed to postpone her appointment and come into our center to chat. To make a long story short, the girl chose to keep her baby.

She was there to have her NINTH abortion!

'Nuff said.

[Pedantic_Lady]

Sometimes that it true. But most times we all work together very closely. At our counselling center in Southern California, we had one husband and wife team that stood in our parking lot (which was right next to the abortion clinic) and asked the girls as they approached the door of the abortuary if they knew what their baby looked like right now. Then, she would pull out a picture of an 8 to 12 week fetus. This woman was about 4' 10" and the most soft spoken woman I have ever met. She never threatened them, and often offered to let them come into the office for a drink while they waited for their appointment time. She was never derrogatory or inflamatory, and the gentleness of her manner was the key to our success. On one such occasion, a girl was entering (from our parking lot which we never towed them out of) when she begged her to just stop and chat for a minute. Compassion and listening were her big "weapons". She spoke very kindly to the girl and suggested she at least consider her baby's future. Something struck this girl and she agreed to postpone her appointment and come into our center to chat. To make a long story short, the girl chose to keep her baby.

I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with people like that.

[Mamzelle]

Curious--I used to be pro-choice, but rejected this position on experiencing my first pregnancy. So, life taught you that life is unimportant?

[Pedantic_Lady]

Either reasoning free-willed individuality is the criterion for having rights---in which case newborn humans have no rights---or the potential for same is the criterion---in which case unborn humans have rights.

It's neither, obviously, since neither situation is true.

[Pedantic_Lady]

Curious--I used to be pro-choice, but rejected this position on experiencing my first pregnancy. So, life taught you that life is unimportant?

I don't value the life of an organism the size of an aspirin over my life, no. Absolutely not. The only person I have to count on in this life is ME. Sure, I'm married...but anyone who is divorced (half the people who have been married) will tell you you can't count on your spouse for every (any?) thing. Can't count on the family. Can't count on friends...most people will cut and run when the going gets tough. I have to look out for #1. Sorry if that upsets your delicate maternal sensibilities, but that's the way it is for me.

[Augustinefan]

Hey Sloth, I have M.S. Maybe I should have been aborted too. I better tell my 5 (soon to be 6) kids that though...they'll be disappointed that they never existed!

Excellent post!

[Pedantic_Lady]

So what is true? It's not thinking and feeling, as you claimed; as I said, "If thinking and feeling conferred rights, adult cats would have rights."

You tell me. You're the one who thinks he knows everything...go ahead and dazzle me with your intellect.

[Augustinefan]

Nick, Was the abortion molester the guy in Arizona? He had something like 20 + counts of (what is still within the statute of limitations) sexual misconduct or something. What was the doc's name?

I'm so glad they get high quality types performing the "safe and legal" abortions, eh.

And I'm disappointed we haven't heard more on the RU486 death of the SF girl. The media is really good at suppressing that one.

[Pedantic_Lady]

Keep playing that relativism card.

Cop-out. I've already made my position quite clear. You haven't even answered your own question.

[Mamzelle]

re: Can't count on friends...most people will cut and run when the going gets tough. I have to look out for #1. Sorry if that upsets your delicate maternal sensibilities, but that's the way it is for me.)))

I will try to keep my vinaigrette handy for my hormonal vaporings and swoonings.

You do lay on the tough stuff rather thickly. Methinks you just might be more delicate than I.

My own epiphany came with the quickening--that's all I meant. Then there was the heartbeat, and the sense that I was charged with the responsibility of something important.

I am not exactly sure that all unborn life is ensouled, citizenized, whatever you'd like to call it. That is a metaphysical question that will forever be unanswerable.

But the argument that unborn life MIGHT be fully human is unassailable. The pro-choicers can't make the case that unborn life is completely without humanity. That means, beyond question, that abortion at its very best MIGHT be murder.

Legally speaking, we are required to behave in such a way that we avoid the possiblity of murder, whether we are positive it is really taking place, or not.

This is something Reagan spoke about--his discussion of it compelled me at the time. That we don't know, so we had better be careful of what we do.

[Augustinefan]

"When an anti-abortionist gets his or her way and bans abortion, young women (sometimes your sisters, daughters, etc) die as a direct result of YOUR moral judgement."

And you base this on what? A false statistic presented by Bernard Nathanson to which he already publicly stated was manufactured?

"When a woman aborts an embryo, a potential human being is expelled from the body."

And you base this on what scientific fact? Science cannot determine the actual moment when a human being is conscious, but it does know when the human being begins...at conception and no other time.

"The embryo does not think. It does not feel."

Once again, you base this on what fact? Besides, the vast majority of abortions are NOT done on embryos...they are done on fetuses...an entirely different point in the human development. Science has no assurances that the fetus cannot think and it actually has some evidence that it CAN feel.

If you choose to enter the discussion based on logic, you must employ logic in the argument you present. Despite what we, as humans, believe we "know" now, there is more we don't know. To make an absolute determination that abortion is acceptable, in the absence of scientific fact, enters us into a very dangerous realm. If you must "know" a person feels pain prior to killing them, then none of us can "know" this and it would make killing on any level acceptable. (I.e., I cannot "know" the pain you feel, I can only observe your response to it.)

Even an aetheist can appreciate the "treat another as you would want to be treated" philosophy, true?