Nellie Connally Disputes Warren Commission

NewsMax.com ^ | 11/25/03 | Carl Limbacher and NewsMax.com Staff

[Peace will be here soon]

PS: the moon is not made of cheese.


Thats all you got?

[Indie]

THREE very disticnt shots were heard in/about the TSBD building - you are advised to review this Affidavit witnessd by several ear witnesses only ONE FLOOR below the shooter:

He could have shot 3 times, which still doesn't disprove another shooter outside or one outside with a silencer.

[_Jim]

He could have shot 3 times, which still doesn't disprove another shooter outside or one outside with a silencer.

Well, of course ... and excluding *all* other evidence (which allows *any* conspiracy theory the "room to wiggle") darn near anything is possible. THAT'S where being a good detective/analyst counts for somthing; as much/as many pieces of the complete puzzle *have* to fit together, more or less seemlessly from beginning to end (THIS is where conspiracy theories usually fall apart - they work with a limted subset of information, and usually fall apart with the introduction of *other*, undisclosed information).

As Shooter 2.5 and others have pointed out - 'silencers' don't really 'silence', a 'report' (from the muzzle) would have still been heard by somebody (there were a LOT of people down there that day - and I suspect quite a number of plain-clothes officers and as well as SS agents in the crowd as well)...

[_Jim]

That angle and the magnification of the photo do show a slight deformation. But photos like that can be deceiving.

Oh brother ... there are a TON of good photos and analysis on the 'magic bullet'.

DO a Google search on "CE399" - you'll find them -

- like:

members.aol.com/stevef88/jfk/ce399gro.htm

and

jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo3/exhibits/ce399.htm

and

spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JR.html

[_Jim]

had they passed through two men's tissue and bones.

Here's your mistake: assuming these bullets went through bone (this was a copper-jacketed round, a little more resistant to demfomation than your standard bare 'lead' round) ...

[Lancey Howard]

Hey Jim,

Do you believe that a 24 year-old who has decided to assassinate the President of the United States - - and then make a getaway - - would aim and fire a scoped bolt-action rifle not once.... not twice.... but THREE times?? And that he could be so ice-cold that he would hang around and fire that third shot.... even after he has ALREADY HIT his target??

I don't believe it for a second.

Regards,
LH

[MHGinTN]

"... there were a LOT of people down there that day - and I suspect quite a number of plain-clothes officers and as well as SS agents in the crowd as well..." Are you aware of the 'special' reassignments of SS personnel prior to the motorcade, and the stated lack of security along the route through the Plaza, even to the point of people being allowed to stand right down on the roadway and access the overpass and the area of the grassy knoll, a thing which would not be allowed if the SS had had complete control over the visit security?

BTW, I've fired many types of suppressed weapons in many configurations. A .32 caliber exploding round can be suppressed so that with normal background noise it would be difficult to even get an accoustical tracing from further away than twenty feet or there 'bouts. Also, a .22LR exploding round that has been grained for subsonic will be undetectable in outdoor background noise with a proper can in use.

[Shooter 2.5]

Take a good look at the area by the fence. No silenced rifle could do the type of damage and be undetected. Suppressed weapons aren't silent. They still have around 35,000 pounds of pressure to release.

[Shooter 2.5]

I have some questions for you.

1. Where was your shooter standing?
2. Which wounds are you saying he caused?
3. Are you trying to claim he used a .22 or a .32?

[Indie]

When loud shots are echoing around Dealy Plaza, it is doubtful silenced shots will be heard. No they're not silent in a quiet environment. Dealy Plaza was not quiet.

I am retired Dallas PD so I am not ignorant in the issue, and I am also acquainted first hand with some of the retired officers who were there.

The fact remains, the investigation was botched and sloppy and the commission was a sham.

As a result, we'll never know what really happened. Not you. Not me. I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory which has a clownish connotation. I'd say the facts conflict, as does the evidence, as does about everything else.
I will stand by that as an experienced shooter whose name resides on the perfect score plaque in the Firearms Trg Ctr of DPD. Not many names on it. I've been shooting since I was 12. So nobody has the corner on knonwing what a silencer "sounds" like and am quite familiar with them.

And I never said it was from the grassy knoll. Those were your words. At least quote me correctly.

[MHGinTN]

I'm not claiming a shooter, but my guesses would be ... .22LR/exploding round; behind the fence atop the grassy knoll ... there is testimony from a soldier who 'heard' a firearm being fired behind and to the left of this soldier. If close enough (say within ten to fifteen feet), even a .22LR suppressed round would make quite a 'whoosh' passing your head.

I'm amazed at how tenaciously believers in 'Oswald did it all' will hold to their beliefs regardless of the niggling facts. And the conspiracy theorists are amazing in how mole-hillish a fact they can expand to become mountainous. I do not believe the American public has the truth of Kennedy's death in Dallas (I was changing college classes at the time the news hit the nation). My beliefs reagrding the fcats are biased because of the news I watched for eleven straight hours that day. The interviews coming from Dallas during those first hours, of persons who were eyewitnesses, carries more weight with my credulity than the bogus WC release and a noticeably altered Zapruder film.

[_Jim]

The fact remains, the investigation was botched and sloppy and the commission was a sham.

I don't see how you can conclude that - UNLESS you buy into all the conspiracy theory bullcrap ...

It looks, to my trained eye, that 1) they apprehended the guilty party *that* day 2) the Warren Commission provided ample material to allow motive to be established 3) WE HAVE ear witnesses who placed one very-well known set of shots at the TSBD that can be 4) traced to one verifiable bullet back in the TSBD building and 5) NOTHING exists outside this sphere which is CREDIBLE that holds the kind of water that Oswald-as-the-lone-shooter does.

Innuendo, hyperbole, wishful thinking and desire for good book sales notwithstanding.

WE EVEN find out that THE GRASSY KNOLL angle has been a 'ruse' by conspiracy theorists since about 1964 ...

As the title of Gearlad Posner's book puts it: "Case Closed."

(WE won't discuss whether you've read one of the (used to be) *distribution limited* copies of the Warren Commission report.)

[Shooter 2.5]

So what's the big secret where you think the shots came from?

And how exactly are 26 volumes and millions of pages of reports botched?

[Shooter 2.5]

Now you're claiming the Zapruder film was altered?

Did you notice that when the CT's thought the film supported them, they never once argued the film was altered?

How exactly does a lowly suppressed subsonic .22 open a man's head like a melon?

[_Jim]

Do you believe that a 24 year-old who has decided to assassinate the President of the United States

WHERE have I mentioned ANY shooter's name (EXCEPT in my last post which was LATER than yours) in this thread?

I made reference to a 'shooter' each time - not Oswald.

IF you wish to move onto the discussion of a PARTICULAR shooter, like Oswald we can.

[Lancey Howard]

I made reference to a 'shooter' each time - not Oswald.

Yep. Sorry.

[Shooter 2.5]

So you have this invisible shooter at the fence with a lowly subsonic .22.

Which wounds are you claiming he made?

You do realize the soldier was nowhere near where he claimed to be, don't you?

[MHGinTN]

I'll leave you to your ranting. I'm not up to it tonight, thank you.

[_Jim]

A .32 caliber exploding round can be suppressed so that with normal background noise it would be difficult to even get an accoustical tracing from further away than twenty feet

Expressly today - OR also in 1963 (I'm not intimately familiar with 'suppressor' technology)?

ALSO bear in mind that various sets of 'eyeballs' are active in these crowds (the concpiracy types NEVER fail to attempt to 'neck down' or restrict the scenario to a smaller set than what was actually present, in reality, on the day of a particular event).

I will caution you too; The 'Grassy Knoll' theories weren't even in vogue UNTIL made popular via book published in 1964 ...

Here are several questions for you:

1) HOW MANY other assassinations do we know of here in this country where crossing and coincident firepower was used in an assassination attempt?

2) Can you convince me that the shooter in the TSBD building wasn't making half-*ssed assassination attempt by using a bolt-action, single-shot rifle with an inherent (in that configuration) slow firing-rate?

3) IF, as some people propose, LBJ was behind this event *and* his man 'Mac' (whose fingerprint were supposedly found on a box) was indeed the shooter - WHY wasn't a better/faster firing rifle, a rifle capable, of laying down a few more rounds in those critical seconds than the bolt-action rifle that was linked to at least one of the bullets?

[Shooter 2.5]

Sorry, I didn't mean to confuse you.

You should have used the "LBJ did it" statement like all the others and quit.