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.ever since the catholic churches' role in the Holocaust has come under scrutiny,

Given that the Catholic Church's role in the Holocaust consisted mainly in saving many many thousands of Jews and pissing off Hitler, I'm curious to know what you might mean by this.

Did Hitler invent the forced ghettoization of jews? No, it was invented by canon law. Did Hitler invent the idea of jewish armbands? No, it was invented by Canon law. The catholic church provided the SS with church marriage and birth records to aid in their hunt for jews in the european population. They only balked when the SS requested information on jewish converts to christianity--pretty proud of that, are they, you think? Pope Pius the Silent is credited by his apologists with every jew ever saved by any christian, however, as to what Pius himself was ever actually observed doing to save jews through the official offices of the church, well, that's a little sparse, to be charitable. The catholic church provided the SS with priests to provide them with mass absolution for mass murder.

Shall I go on?

The catholic church provided priests to supervise the loading of jews into cattle cars in Slovokia. The catholic church's vatican state provided Hitler with his first accord with a foreign power, where other states were reluctant to lend such legitimacy to Hitler's government, and which, incidently, was a compact to shut the hell up about the jews, in return for support, including monitary support, of the catholic church in Germany.

I can go on for quite some time, if that's not sufficient. And I can show you anti-jewish SS posters on the subject that echo 1400 years of official catholic sentiment about jews. And the reason I can do so, is that Germany was ready for the Jewish solution well before Hitler, who was a Catholic, and who voiced anti-jewish catholic rhetoric conspicuously in his speeches to an audience primed to hear it.

Thanks to the churches 50 years of mealymouthed avoidance of this uncontested history, it doesn't surprise me that you, like most people, sport such a sanitized version of history. Hitler had plans to bugger the Church despite having signed the concords with Pius the Silent but as for the Church having "pissed off Hitler". It did no such thing, to any significantly useful extent, (except, interestingly enough, for opposition to the eugenics genocide plan, late in the war, which was halted due to church opposition. Think of that--the church could stop the lame and the old from being gassed, but was curiously toothless to defend jews) until xmas of, um, 41, I think, after the damage to the jews was pretty much done and the allies were closing in. And Pius the Silent thought he had better grease some bacon, before he had to eat it raw.

Pius the Silent ex-communicated every communist shortly after WWII. In the space below you can list the number of high ranking SS officials he ex-communicated. It won't be as large as the number the Church spirited out of Germany to avoid prosecution.

Oh goodie! Another "Catholics are worse than Nazis" bigot to eviscerate.

Your bigotry -really- shines when you make absurd claims that your version of history is "uncontested". Oh -really-?

Then why, indeed, did the whole world including the entire Jewish Community praise Pius at the end of the war? Why were there no condemnations until a 7 hour! play debuted in 1963 by a German Protestant left-wing playwright that was almost completely fictional? Couldn't be a little, oh, Communist vendetta could it?

The record of his using his office to help Jews was -sparse-? LOL!

I would say the Allies air-dropping Pope Pius XII's first encyclical over Germany in order to raise anti-Nazi sentiment would count as using his office.

I would say that his ordering protests to the Vichy government for deporting Jews counts as using his office.

I would say that 80% of Jews in Europe being killed, as opposed to 80% of Jews in Italy (where he had the most sway) -surviving-, directly as a result of Pius's orders to all Catholics to hide Jews, and to hundreds being hidden in the Vatican itself, counts as using his office.

I would say Albert Einsten is a more credible source than you are, in Time Magazine, December 23 1940:

"Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...

"Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."

I would also say that the first Israeli President and two Israeli Prime Ministers were a little closer to the issues than you were. And I would also say that the following organizations praising him for his great help in saving Jews at his funeral counts a little more than you do:

the World Jewish Congress
the Anti-Defamation League
the Synagogue Council of America
the Rabbinical Council of America
the American Jewish Congress
the New York Board of Rabbis
the American Jewish Committee
the Central Conference of American Rabbis
the American Jewish Committee
the Central Conference of American Rabbis
the National Conference of Christians and Jews
the National Council of Jewish Women.

Rabbi David Dalin's stunning 2001 defense of Pius XII, from the Weekly Standard:

http://www.traces-cl.com/apr2001/pio.htm

Qwinn

"Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany,
I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they
had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth;
but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I
looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming
editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of
freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a
few short weeks...

Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's
campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special
interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great
affection and admiration because the Church alone has had
the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth
and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I
once despised I now praise unreservedly."

Albert Einstein
Time Magazine, 12/23/40

The charity and work of Pope Pius XII during World War II
so impressed the Chief Rabbi of Rome, Israel Zolli, that
in 1944 he was open to the grace of God which led him into
the Catholic faith. As his baptismal name, he took the same
one Pius had, Eugenio, as his own. Later Israel Eugenio Zolli
wrote a book entitled, Why I Became a Catholic.

"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and
darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about
the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to
raise his voice at all... the Pope put himself squarely
against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that the Nazi aims
are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a
Christian peace."

The New York Times editorial
12/25/41 (Late Day edition, p. 24)

"This Christmas more than ever he is a lonely voice crying
out of the silence of a continent... Pope Pius expresses
as passionately as any leader on our side the war aims of
the struggle for freedom when he says that those who aim at
building a new world must fight for free choice of
government and religious order. They must refuse that the
state should make of individuals a herd of whom the state
disposes as if they were lifeless things."

The New York Times editorial
12/25/42 (Late Day edition, p. 16)

"[Pope Pius XII] took an unequivocal stand against the
oppression of Jews throughout Europe."

-- American Jewish Yearbook, 1943-44

"The Church and papacy have saved Jews as much and in as far
as they could save Christians…Six million of my co-religionists
have been murdered by the Nazis, but there could have been many
more victims, had it not been for the efficacious intervention
of Pius XII."

-- Dr. Rafael Cantoni,
head of the Italian Jewish Assistance Committee

"I express my thanks as well as deep appreciation…of the
invaluable help given by the Catholic Church to the Jewish
people in its affliction."

-- Grand Rabbi Isaac Herzog of Jerusalem

"[I praise the pope and Catholics] who recognized the
persecuted as their brothers."

-- Dr. Joseph Nathan,
head of the wartime Italian Hebrew Commission

"[To Pius XII]...the warmest thanks for the efforts of the
Catholic Church on behalf of Jews throughout Europe during the war."

-- Dr. A. Leo Kubowitzler,
Secretary General of the World Jewish Congress

Hitler a catholic? what kind of catholic might that be?
(A wolf in sheeps clothing?)

Out of curiosity why is it when we have a religious film out about Jesus we have to hear about the Holocaust? Did we have to worry about Roots when it came out that Blacks felt maybe the white race would try ro re-capture them again for slavery purposes gimmie a break....

I am not dimishing the atrocities of the Holocaust, or Slavery or any people that have been un-justly tortured by the evils of men, but leave Jesus alone already!!! no human being has ever suffered the torment not even close to what he went through for the world, and he did it for LOVE something most of us have forgotten about.

There is EVIL in the world and evil does not need an excuse to bring pain upon any of us, we are fighting our best to rid the world of terrorism, Jesus is also fighting for us, to know who he is and to bring us closer to G-d he is fighting the pain and evil man has in his heart I hope this movie will make people think of who they are and what G-d is all about... Please support "The Passion"