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To: gcruse
Ahh...that explains some of your hostility. I also must address this wish of yours:

"I want to help these tortured souls see that a religion-neutral government is in the best interest of all..."

That's a wonderful thought if we ever had...or ever could have, a religion-neutral government. Nature abhors a vacuum and even if you could get rid of one or all religions, another one would just take it's place. There are more Faiths and religions than just those who worship Deities. Should we embrace the Enviro-Greens who worship the Earth and Mother Nature? Heck, we already have Earth Day were we pay tribute to Mother Earth. Maybe we can pay tribute to the State and worship Man...as most Fascist, Socialist and Communist faiths do. The latter is obviously more dangerous as Man becomes the law-giver and those inalienable rights granted by God are easily replaced by Man.

A religion-neutral government doesn't punish and ridicule those who believe in God (re: Ashcroft, Pryor, Pickering, etc). Hell, we had the liberals in the Senate actually questioning Pryor's parental purrogative to schedule his and his family's (two daughters) trip to Disney World so they wouldn't have to partake of Gay Days? Since when is it "government's" job to concern itself with how a father decides to shield his family from what he considers inappropriate behaviour? That's sure one hell of a religiously-neutral government, huh? It also doesn't punish private organizations for whom they choose to associate with. The Boy Scouts were never referred to as a "religious" organization...nor where they ever punished "before" the gay controversy arose. But now we have a liberal judge labeling the Scouts just that simply because they have a certain moral code they wish to uphold. All of the sudden, "anyone" who has any objection to the Gay lifestyle is assaulted as a religious wacko. Any type of moral character, including judgementalism, is now frowned upon as some sinister religious conversion...to be done away with from the public square.

The fact is, the religously-neutral government you wish to create is actually a religiously-bigoted government, as this secularism has become more hostile to people of Faith. And if you don't believe it, than you're just not paying attention. Heck, the faith (or lack thereof) in your Atheism is a perfect reflection of that hostitlity and intolerance. We have people (like those in Canada) who want to get rid of the Bible because to them, it is hate speech. Great...let's bring back the book-burnings...atheists are such tolerant people. We have teachers getting suspended for wearing crosses or fired for letting a child lead a prayer in respect for another child's death. These are not examples of a religiously-neutral government, or a government "endorsing" religion...and in fact, are examples of a government hostile to those who practice their religion. Granted, no concentration camps, yet...but once you lather-up that hatred for people of Faith, it shouldn't be too long coming. It should also be noted that the very secular-isms that you embrace are not only responsible for more misery in the 20th Century, they are also responsible for the greatest attacks on people of religious faith.

Is it any wonder why Communism and Socialism despise God and religion? After all, how can they demand obedience to the State when religious people have a higher authority in their lives...other than the State. It certainly makes it harder to take away peoples rights when they believe many of those rights are granted to them by God, and not Man. The Faith of Secular-isms has as many, if not more dangers, than that of Christianity. It is essentially a selfish faith with obedience to no one but thyself, and therefore has no boundaries for behaviour. And this is exactly why so many liberals (and Atheists) object to religion because it actually sets some boundaries, that as a civilized society, some have decided to adhere to. That doesn't mean that government has to endorse it...but it does mean they shouldn't punish it, either. You keep thinking that a religion-neutral government can even exist...or is even preferable; that's what the Bolsheviks thought, also. Unfortunately, Once God is removed, so are many of those God-given rights that make way for Man-made laws.

175 posted on 11/04/2003 1:34:13 PM PST by cwb
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To: cwboelter
Nature abhors a vacuum and even if you could get rid of
one or all religions, another one would just take it's place.


Do you honestly equate a religion neutral government with
getting rid of religion?   Now I begin to understand your
antipathy toward separation of church and state
Without the backing of the state, you fear your religion
will disappear.  I have to tell you, this is the first time
I've come across that.

That doesn't mean that government has to endorse [religion]...


Then you have no objection to the removal of religious
symbolism from the government?  There seems to be
a contradiction here.  To me, absence of religious
endorsement is a religion neutral government.

but it does mean they shouldn't punish it, either.

I haven't seen any religion go to jail lately.  And by
removing government perks from organizations that
discriminate against the nonreligious is punishment only
in the eyes of the discriminators.
177 posted on 11/04/2003 1:56:05 PM PST by gcruse (http://gcruse.typepad.com/)
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