Editorial: Open book for hidden guns

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel ^ | Oct. 27, 2003 | Editorial

[Monitor]

The bill that would allow the carrying of hidden weapons in Wisconsin features another level of concealment many missed at first glance: The names of those applying for a concealed-carry permit would themselves be kept secret.

The bill ought to be defeated, in our view, because it might heighten gun violence in the streets. But regardless of that issue, the Assembly should delete from the legislation the exemption from the state's open records law. The Senate approved the bill with the exemption the other day.

Gov. Jim Doyle put it well: "Under this bill, hunting licenses would still be considered open records in Wisconsin, yet permits allowing people to carry concealed weapons into Little League games would be kept secret."

The reasons the bill's advocates give for the secrecy don't track with reality. Minnesota law professor Joseph Olson asked rhetorically: "Do you really want to give burglars a list of whose homes to burglarize?"

The idea is that they would avoid homes with concealed-carry permits. Your typical burglar, however, doesn't check public records. And even if he did, he couldn't be sure that a person not listed on a concealed-carry registry lacks a weapon on hand at home - for which you don't need a permit.

A registry would help armed robbers even less. After all, they typically pick their victims without any idea of their names.

The stated justification for the secrecy is so lame that it raises the issue of whether ulterior motives are involved. The availability of names has enabled journalists and others to identify some sensational killers elsewhere as holders of concealed-carry licenses. Also, the Violence Policy Center, which supports more firearm regulation, has used public records to point out that the authorities in Texas arrest an average of two concealed-carry licensees a month for especially violent crimes, such as homicide, kidnapping and rape.

Keeping names secret would make it tough, if not impossible, to come up with such findings in Wisconsin. Is that the real motive? In any event, journalists and scholars and advocates on either side of the gun-control issue ought to be able to examine how well a concealed-carry law is working by having access to a registry of permit holders. That's the way a democracy is supposed to work.

From the Oct. 28, 2003 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

[Monitor]

Wisconsin CCW BANG!

[Sabretooth]

Carry everywhere, tell no one.

[Monitor]

Also, the Violence Policy Center, which supports more firearm regulation, has used public records to point out that the authorities in Texas arrest an average of two concealed-carry licensees a month for especially violent crimes, such as homicide, kidnapping and rape.

And what percentage of those arrests are actually prosecuted? What percentage are arrested as a matter of course, leaving the DA to determine if the shooting was not a homicide, but was in fact self defense, resulting in the charges being dropped?

[muawiyah]

The nutso editor in Milwaukee believes that: "Your typical burglar, however, doesn't check public records."

It is to laugh! Successful burglars score in the hundreds, if not thousands, of burgled homes. They use every bit of information they can to tell them where to get the best loot and where it's safe.

It's dollars to donuts that editorial writer has a gun or employs a private guard service. He might even have a stake in a successful burglar or two for all we know. Someone should check him out!

[Monitor]

The availability of names has enabled journalists and others to identify some sensational killers elsewhere as holders of concealed-carry licenses.

I would like to see a list of "sensational killers" that were "holders of concealed-carry licenses."

I bet it's a real short list.

And then I'd like to see that list next to the list of concealed carry licensees who have never committed a crime.

[jdege]

If they want to track how many permit holders are convicted of crimes, they can do what Minnesota did:

1. Require that every prosecutor files charges someone with a crime that would result in revocation of a permit, whether the accused has a permit.
2. Require that the prosecutor inform the issuing sheriff of the charges.
3. Require that the prosecutor inform the issuing sheriff of the final outcome of the charges.
4. Require each sheriff to submit a statistical summary of charges and convictions annually to the Department of Public Safety.
5. Require the Department of Public Safety to publish an annual report of charges and convictions, broken down by county.

This gives them everything they claim to want, without giving them what they really want - the ability to harass permit holders by name in the press.

[cavtrooper21]

CCW ping...
Plus the added bonus of lies by the VPC.
Can you nice folks ther in Texas refute of counter these?

Not that it really matters, all of us here know the truth anyway....

[Rocky Mountain High]

Right on!

[Pontiac]

Gov. Jim Doyle put it well: "Under this bill, hunting licenses would still be considered open records in Wisconsin, yet permits allowing people to carry concealed weapons into Little League games would be kept secret."

The not so good Governor just lost all credibility in this argument by bringing “I am doing it for the children” in to the argument.

authorities in Texas arrest an average of two concealed-carry licensees a month for especially violent crimes, such as homicide, kidnapping and rape.

I would like to see some independent verification and anyliss of this statement, Because, well, these anti-gun screwballs just don’t have a good record of getting there facts right.

OK they’re liars.

[Travis McGee]

I hope somebody posts the names, pictures, addresses, phone numbers, home photos etc of these commie trash editors.

[Rodney Dangerfield]

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

[newgeezer]

(from the article) The bill ought to be defeated, in our view, because it might heighten gun violence in the streets.

Prove it, liberal pinheads. Why would Wisconsin be different than the 30-odd states with shall-issue CCW on the books (other than the fact that Wisconsin has more liberal pinheads than most other states)?

[cavtrooper21]

Oh!! heaven forbid, that would be violating their right to PRIVACY...
Doncha know..
Yep.
But it's ok for them to splatter everyone' elses name on the front page, 'cause the people have the "right to know".

Bah, kill them all.

[Ches]

Gov. Jim Doyle put it well: "My Uncle Joe Stalin, would never stand for this! I must follow in his footsteps."

[Travis McGee]

Yup.

[the bottle let me down]

Thanks for the interesting link.

[tet68]

, the Violence Policy Center, which supports more firearm regulation, has used public records to point out that the authorities in Texas arrest an average of two concealed-carry licensees a month for especially violent crimes, such as homicide, kidnapping and rape.

Sorry, ain't buying it.

If that was the case it would be the same ALL OVER.

[OldPossum]

I don't even buy the premise. Discount anything put out by the "Violence Policy Center." It is a collection of liars.

[spunkets]

Amazing! The VPC and the rest of the grabbers lied.

	OFFENSE	Conviction Count of Licensed Individuals*		Conviction Count of Non-Licensed Individuals**		Percentage of Total Convictions Committed by Licensed Individuals
	MURDER (Title 5, Chapter 19)	1		157		0.63%
	KIDNAPPING (Title 5, Chapter 20)	0		124		0.00%
	SEXUAL ASSAULT (Title 5, Chapter 21)	9		1,359		0.66%
	ROBBERY (Title 7, Chapter 29)	0		1,360		0.00%
	AGGRAVATED ASSAULT (Title 5, Chapter 22)	17		2,259		0.75%
	ASSAULT (Title 5, Chapter 22)	54		17,309		0.31%
	TERRORISTIC THREAT (Title 5, Chapter 22)	5		1,229		0.41%
	BURGLARY (Title 7, Chapter 30)	1		5,675		0.02%
	INDECENCY WITH A CHILD (Title 5, Chapter 22)	19		929		2.00%
	INDECENT EXPOSURE (Title 5, Chapter 22)	5		543		0.91%
	FAIL OR REFUSE TO DISPLAY CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE (Subchapter H)	0		0		0.00%
	UNLAWFULLY CARRYING HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER (Title 10, Chapter 46)	25		0		100.00%
	UNLAWFULLY CARRYING WEAPON (Title 10, Chapter 46)	22		2,905		0.75%
	POSSESSION OF COMPONENTS OF EXPLOSIVES (Title 10, Chapter 46)	0		4		0.00%
	UNLAWFUL POSSESSION OF FIREARM BY FELON (WEAPONS FREE ZONE) (Title 10, Chapter 46)	0		1		0.00%
	DEADLY CONDUCT DISCHARGE FIREARM (Title 10, Chapter 46)	1		102		0.97%
	HOAX BOMBS (Title 10, Chapter 46)	0		2		0.00%
	MAKE FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO CHILD DEATH/SERIOUS BODILY INJURY (Title 10, Chapter 46)	0		5		0.00%
	HARASSMENT (Title 5, Chapter 22)	21		1,013		2.03%
	COERCE SOLICIT INDUCE GANG MEMBERSHIP (Title 5, Chapter 22)	0		94		0.00%
	TOTAL CONVICTED OFFENSES	180		35,070		0.51064%
	*Individuals that held active Texas Concealed Handgun Licenses at the time of arrest
	**Individuals that did not hold an active Texas Concealed Handgun License at the time of the arrest.