SoCal Fires Live Thread 10/28

10/28/03 | Myself

[spectr17]

SoCal Fires Live Thread 10/28

[spectr17]

Cajon repeater site being threatened now

[archy]

Certainly, we need to evolve a new strategy for dealing with coordinated arson-terrorist started fires, a strategy involving the IMMEDIATE use of every available helicopter capable of lifting a water bucket.

Or maybe something more effective than either helo bucket carriers or the Bombardier Canadair CL-415 *water bombers* that LA has leased from the Canadians.

[PhiKapMom]

It was explained on KTLA that the wind is blowing to the Southwest and if they dropped where the fires are burning they would miss their targest because of the wind. Also dangerous to fly into the smoke in the mountain area so they are making drops of fire retardent on areas that are near the fire but not on fire so there is no problem with smoke.

That's the explanation given by the spokesman from SB Fire Department.

[lainie]

they just panned the 180-degree panorama. How are they going to stop the fire altogether from heading north? I don't see how they can. The front is like, a dozen canyons in at least as many miles.

[lainie]

I don't know enough about it to say. Maybe the fact that they're stretched so thin is a factor?

[oceanperch]

Like all the news lately they seem to cover stories after the fact.

Then again I just had a thought. Could it be possible that Freepers have been in touch so much and so long with breaking stories that we are all getting use to hearing it here first with updates that it just seems the news media is slow.

[lainie]

KFI -- there's a police artist drawing of a suspect now

[PhiKapMom]

So far looks like HW 18 is still providing the fire break and with these drops of retardent into the repeater stations/high school, the break is holding. Just hope the winds stay blowing to othe Southwest although they did switch from South to the Southwest.

In Chatsworth they have been making steady fire attacks.

KTLA reporting hard to use choppers in the thin air of the mountains at Arrowhead -- reduces load and harder to maneuver.

[Fitzcarraldo]

These guys can hit anything...a few days at the fire near Rancho Cucamonga stories pilots were making drops and were returning "with branches on their wings".

[spectr17]

Having flown helos into the local mtns here for years to work at the commo sites, it's tricky flying, lot's of wind and buffetting.

Pic is of a mountaintop worksite here in southern Californy called Little San Gorgonio Mountain, 9,000 ft high, and very interesting chopper landings in the winter.

One interesting landing with pilot Pete had the landing pad covered with an 8 foot high snowdrift. Pete says "Hold on", as we approached the landing pad and I'm like "Hold on hell". "We can shiskabob the skids into the snowbank", says Pete. We crash land into the snowdrift, the helo skids sticking out of the snowbank like a fork in a pickle. Silly me, I thought that fun ride was over until we had to leave.

The skids had frozen into the snowbank and Pete says "Hold on"again. Well, I've been on some purty hairy rides in choppers before, but when Pete went full juice, and starting rocking the chopper and then the chopper popped loose from the moutainside, the pucker factor rose quite rapidly. Pete still laughs about that one.

That's Pete in the pic. Some of you may remember the helo crash in Oak Glen in the mid 80s and the helo crash at the 7 Oaks dam a few years back. Pete was the pilot who saved the crew in both auto rotations down. One of the best helo pilots I've ever flown with.

[The Mayor]

Thank you..

You are all in our Prayers..

[Fitzcarraldo]

KTLA reporting hard to use choppers in the thin air of the mountains at Arrowhead -- reduces load and harder to maneuver.

The copter rescue I observed was at 11,000 feet...

[maggief]

It's posted here, somewhere.

Did you link to the scanner yet?

[PhiKapMom]

Like you I cannot believe when they panned around at just how far that fire extends along HW 18. With the winds starting to shift, I am not sure how they can stop anything unless they can get a better handle on the fire before the wind shifts to onshore flow. Right now the wind is their best friend.

[lainie]

can't get onto the scanner yet

[socal_parrot]

Investigators are seeking a white man in his early or mid-20s who was seen driving a light gray van away from the fire's point of origin.

[lainie]

thanks for the pic

[Poohbah]

I doubt it's harder than doing a cable landing on the back of a pitching destroyer in 30 foot seas and 30 knot winds.

It's not any more difficult, but it has its own unique requirements and you still have to practice it. It's more training time--and that is always scarce. But I'd definitely have at least part of the force (perhaps that part coming off deployment and staying home for at least a year) ready to execute the mission.

Unlike the fixed wing aircraft tasked for fire missions, helos don't have to swoop into the canyons and pull up to clear the ridge. They just get over the fire and drop, even high over. The fire line is almost always visible from straight above, since the thick smoke is blowing away down wind.

If they're dropping from that high, the water will disperse downwind.

How much does a water bucket cost to manufacture and store?

Aviation-qualified hardware costs more than you'd think, and you can't just leave it in storage, you gotta get it in the hands of the people who'll use it and let them practice--even if it breaks some of them.

It's criminal that these helicopter assets are sitting on the ground idle 15 miles from the fires.

1. Bush needs to have a talk with Mr. Rumsfeld, who needs to chat with Mr. England, whereupon Mr. England has a "moment of prayer" with Admiral Clark, whereupon Admiral Clark has a polite chat with Admiral Doran at COMPACFLT, who in turn speaks to Vice Admiral Malone at COMNAVAIRPAC, who in turn dumps a bucket of shhhhhhaving cream (c8 on Commodore Webber at HSLWINGPAC.

2. We need a governor willing to lead. Unfortunately, we're stuck with Gumby for a little longer.

3. We do need to revise the law that requires repayment in all cases.

[Travis McGee]

If this is going to be a new face of warfare, where your enemies (foreign Al Qaeda or domestic ELF) are going to set fires in a coordinated way, we had better have contingency plans involving rapid response by the military assets already available in SoCal and elsewhere.

If dozens of helicopters with water buckets had been called into the air early Sunday AM, the San Diego fires might have been put out before Sunday's Santa Ana's kicked them into the 20 mile wide firestorms we are dealing with today.

[meanie monster]

I can't listen either, since yesterday.