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Teen pulling prank killed by neighbor
The Palm Beach Post ^ | Sunday, October 26 | Sarah Eisenhauer and Cynthia Kopkowski

Posted on 10/26/2003 4:41:29 AM PST by lifacs

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To: Robert Drobot
The media is anti-gun, and have in all likelihood framed the story in a typical bigoted socialist mind-set.

Isn't it interesting that the reporters felt the need to publish the property value of the house? What sort of class hatred are they trying to stir up?

261 posted on 10/26/2003 12:18:24 PM PST by Timesink
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To: lifacs
There has to be more to this story than is being told.
When you are doing a 'knock and run' at 12:30 AM why are you even still in SIGHT when someone answers the door?

Admittedly, the homeowner shouldn't be shooting someone without clear sight of the person but just WHAT was the kid still doing at the door.
Most of the time, at 12:30 at night, it will take a couple of minutes to answer the door. That gives the kids plenty of time to scoot and get gone.

There are things here that are not being told on one side or the other, or both sides, that would play into this case.

262 posted on 10/26/2003 12:20:21 PM PST by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
Ringing the bell and running is one thing when you are eight and it is daylight. It is quite another thing when you are adult sized, it is the middle of the night and you stick around waiting for the owner to come out.

Either they were incredibly inept at "ding-dong-ditch", or they were incredibly inept at "home invasion and burglarly".

Judging from the reaction of those who claimed to know him, I'm inclined to beleive the latter. Note that his "friends" here placed no responsibility with the perp, and totally blamed the homeowner (at least in the posts I've read). Also, they have made references to how popular and well-liked he was, which is irrelevant to the events of that night. Furthermore, they have made personal insults at those who disagreed with them. All this leads me to believe that you have a bunch of kids who think that society owes them something and that they can get away with anything.

However this situation turns out, Darwin appears to be the clear winner.

263 posted on 10/26/2003 12:23:22 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: lifacs; demlosers; Trickyguy
Darwinian selection.

Home invaders may knock.

If this "kid" was holding anything, or holding a hand behind his back bringing it forward, BOOM. Righteous shoot.

Sad given the facts after the fact, but righteous.

Stupid kids are usually under supervised by their parents. His parents will mourn and get angry, but probably at the wrong person.

Stupid pranks can have fatal outcomes.
264 posted on 10/26/2003 12:30:42 PM PST by SevenDaysInMay (Federal judges and justices serve for periods of good behavior, not life. Article III sec. 1)
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To: HoustonCurmudgeon
A prayer service is planned Monday for the "very well loved" student, Fiano said.

I wonder how the school and students would be reacting if this were one of the school's unloved, unpopular students.

265 posted on 10/26/2003 12:30:53 PM PST by Timesink
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To: Shooter 2.5
Today, I don't care what the police are using. I'm using a 1911 with Hydra-Shoks. My son uses a 1911 with Gold Dots.

Those are two of my favorite rounds also. I've used the Winchester HPs also. It all comes down to personal choice. I'm of the belief that shot placement and caliber are 95% of the game. Whether or not you use FMJ or JHP is the other 4.9%, and what brand of JHP is about 0.1%. From what I've read, they all work about the same if the shooter does his/her part.

Anyway, you're bound to find at least one LE organization which uses the brand of defensive ammo that you use. So it's really a non-issue.

Preparing to survive and during a shooting, the least of your problem is worrying about what a jury will do.

Exactly. Situational awareness and threat avoidance is much more important than what ammo or what gun you're carrying. And if that doesn't work, then it comes down to weapon reliability, caliber, and shooter skill.

266 posted on 10/26/2003 12:30:59 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: m18436572
He was expecting a burgler, hence the gun.

No, he wasn't. Nobody answers the door for burglers. He probably thought that somebody needed help.

Unless there was a premeditated motivation to do so, say... it was the fifth time he had been awakened that night and now he was going to do something about it. No excuse there.

He should go to jail if that's what happened, but there's no hint of that in the story.

Mabey there is some other reason to answer the door with a gun in your hand?

Yes, there is. Some people always have their guns handy when they answer the door late at night as a safety precaution. None of them ever really expects to have to use it, but it makes them feel safe.

267 posted on 10/26/2003 12:31:14 PM PST by Frunabulax ("If the truth will kill them, let them die.")
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To: joan
Drugs or alcohol could have played a part and impaired his judgement, made him paranoid, angry, etc. Notice how it mentions his eyes being red:

Do you really think the cops would have let him walk if he was obviously drunk or on drugs when he shot the kid?

268 posted on 10/26/2003 12:34:14 PM PST by Mulder (Fight the future)
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To: Shooter 2.5
The problem I have with the book is it's out of date.

Hey, I kinda like the picture the guy with Colt Official Police and Elvis sideburns.

269 posted on 10/26/2003 12:37:51 PM PST by Tijeras_Slim (SSDD - Same S#it Different Democrat)
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To: Just another Joe
There has to be more to this story than is being told. When you are doing a 'knock and run' at 12:30 AM why are you even still in SIGHT when someone answers the door?

You have to hide nearby so that you can witness the bewildered or enraged antics of your victims. The trick is to make sure that they can't see YOU! That's where the failure occurred here.

Admittedly, the homeowner shouldn't be shooting someone without clear sight of the person but just WHAT was the kid still doing at the door.

He was probably in the shadows trying to stop himself from snickering. Criminals try to hide themselves, too, and they might not hold their fire long enough for you to be 100% sure they're not going to kill you.

Most of the time, at 12:30 at night, it will take a couple of minutes to answer the door. That gives the kids plenty of time to scoot and get gone.

Yes, you'd think he could have found a better hiding place.

270 posted on 10/26/2003 1:00:48 PM PST by Frunabulax ("If the truth will kill them, let them die.")
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To: Squantos
Thanks for your input. It is quite likely that the reason there was no immediate arrest is that it is the weekend, the autopsy hasn't been done yet, the shooter has no record and is not considered a flight risk. Nobody's saying the kid was small. He was tall and medium build. We will have to wait and see where exactly the evidence leads. Being close to the situation, I can only tell you what I know about the kids involved and the likely outcome. We're all very sad.
271 posted on 10/26/2003 1:05:43 PM PST by untwist (A)
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To: Smokin' Joe; elfman2
I rather spend my (short) time assessing a risk by determining a reasonable reason to shoot, rather than trying to think up a reasonable reason not to shoot. Juries have the luxury of time looking for reasonable doubt that a person in possible mortal fanger doesn't have.
272 posted on 10/26/2003 1:36:03 PM PST by stands2reason ("What you see at fight club is a generation of men raised by women." -- Chuck Palahniuk)
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To: lifacs
Tragic incident. IIRC a similar shooting was in the news a few years ago involving a Japanese student (or exchange student) and a homeowner with a 44mag, on/near Halloween I think?? Except in that case there apparently, in fact, was no malicious intent on the part of the victim.

As has already been covered, antagonizing people at midnight on purpose is a hazardous endeavour, best avoided.

While the homeowner may be legally vindicated, killing someone who never intended you harm will be devastating psychologically - assuming reports of the victims "innocent prank" are accurate.

273 posted on 10/26/2003 1:44:33 PM PST by xsrdx (Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas)
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To: lifacs
From the piece:

""What is so important that you are defending that you need a gun?" said Quiroga"

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This lady is a fine Sheeple specimen.

274 posted on 10/26/2003 1:51:50 PM PST by Osage Orange (How come my Dad...never told me about the nose hair problem?)
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To: alisasny
You wrote:

"The 16 year old should not have been out wandering the streets at 1230 am. "

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

WOW!! And death is his penalty?!?!?

275 posted on 10/26/2003 1:55:24 PM PST by Osage Orange (Politicians favor unarmed citizens)
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To: CGTRWK
Carhart said ringing doorbells and running is not generally considered to be a crime.

Stupidity is always a crime. The penalty is death.

The Universe does not exact the penalty in every instance. That's not a reason to roll the dice.

276 posted on 10/26/2003 1:56:49 PM PST by Oztrich Boy (You realize, of course, this means war?" B Bunny)
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To: Osage Orange
NO but my kid would have been home sleeping and not pulling such a stupid prank in todays day and age.

I guess you condone this behavior.



277 posted on 10/26/2003 1:57:41 PM PST by alisasny (No one is listening until you make a mistake.)
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To: Lion Den Dan
Punk had no business doing what he was doing and banged on the wrong door. I agree and as usual he was a gem of a student and an ALTERBOY. Sorry, good kids are not wondering around annoying people at 1230 am. Also not enough info at this time and if the kid was shot in the back that is just plain wrong. However split second decisions do get made by everyone and I am not ready to judge the homeowner at this point who was minding his own business when he was rudely interrupted by another stupid kid trying to get some laughs.
278 posted on 10/26/2003 2:05:13 PM PST by alisasny (No one is listening until you make a mistake.)
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To: Let's Roll
Also what kind of burglar knocks or rings the bell? The kind who wants to be sure there's nobody home?

Well, I'll tell you from what seems like the "home invasion" capital of the world -- Eastside San Jose, I would have thought 'home invasion'.

That's actually not true, but it sure 'seems' like it from the newspaper reports I've read here in the last 5 years.

My first impulse would be to suspect a 'home invasion' type of effort assuming no one could be seen thru the peephole. I also live alone & have 'kicked myself' for answering the door late at night without checking first, but having been married, I've had a sense of security that actually isn't warranted, but is there none-the-less.

Getting a homeowner to step outside of the front door would seem like a common home invasion ploy, especially if played in the wee hours when the resident could be still half-asleep, like I usual have been when I answered the door.

I have to admit that pulling the trigger is another issue, but again it depends on threats, both real & perceived, that were received prior to this event.

279 posted on 10/26/2003 2:05:26 PM PST by all_mighty_dollar
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To: alisasny
Usually, but not always, events such as car accidents and this result from TWO individuals doing something wrong concomitantly.

Here, I think they were both at fault; however, the kid was the aggressor, Levin was in his own home minding his own business. Ultimately I agree with you: the kid should not have been out after midnight annoying people--you never know what frightened people will do to protect themselves.

Of course we need more facts, but I think the guy doesn't do time based on what I've read so far.

280 posted on 10/26/2003 2:06:15 PM PST by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
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