Study suggests life sprang from clay

cnn ^

[chance33_98]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- Science backed up religion this week in a study that suggests life may have indeed sprung from clay -- just as many faiths teach.

A team at the Howard Hughes Medical Institute and Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston said they had shown materials in clay were key to some of the initial processes in forming life.

[P.O.E.]

Sorry I couldn't resist

[nmh]

"If this research was as valid as the headline so optimistically proclaims, it points directly to evolution."

Geesh! Can't even think straight, can you?

Giving me a twisted flippant comment doesn't change the fact of this topic that evolution is doutbful. But hey, if it makes you feel better, believe in godless evolution.

[nmh]

"It doesn't take much for the athiests to come crawling out of their dark pit. I guess they think they have to quickly put down the truth before someone believes it. How juvinile of them."

Won't it be a joyful time when we no longer have to tolerate such blather? An entire population who acknowledges, gives proper credit to our wonderful Creator! From wht's written, those who are against Him will not be present with believers.

[Flightdeck]

Actually, I think the phrase "godless evolution" is an oxymoron. I see nothing conflicting with intelligent design and evolution. I imagine evolution was "intelligently designed" (by God) to allow humans with free will to exist. And evolution is most definitely not doubtful.

[birg]

If this research was as valid as the headline so optimistically proclaims, it points directly to evolution.

---

Why did humans, who are vastly more complex than say , a space shuttle, evolve whereas the far less complex shuttle
did not evolve from some simpler form but had to be designed
by humans.?

Bear in mind that the shuttle cannot speak, a very basic
human ability. It could not complain of its "wounds" before it "died"

[Flightdeck]

I'm guessing you picked space shuttle, because had you picked airplane, I could have easily pointed to the bird. We're supposed to be the smart bunch here! (as opposed to the liberal democrats.) Why would God make bizarre deep-sea animals that feast on boiling copper from geothermal vents, if humans are the point of earth and could be created directly from clay. Before you get the idea I'm a "godless atheist", check post 24. I'm sorry, in my experience, the ones who refute evolution are slightly less than experts in biology.

[nmh]

"Actually, I think the phrase "godless evolution" is an oxymoron. I see nothing conflicting with intelligent design and evolution."

Hmmm. Familiar with Hebrew? If so you would see the contradiction since the Hebrew states :

SEVEN

TWENTY-FOUR HOUR DAYS

for creation!

"I imagine evolution was "intelligently designed" (by God) to allow humans with free will to exist. And evolution is most definitely not doubtful."

Have any verses to support that? I short you are sayign that God didn't mean 24 hour days and a 7 day week. Next you suggest that God was too stupid to make this happen and humans evolved by choice? With free will of course.

Evolution is diametrically opposed to God and His account of creation.

[I_dmc]

So, this means all that clay I ate as a child was a "good thing"?

[Unassuaged]

Unless you have a copy of HIS handwriting to compare, please concede that humans wrote all you have ever read on anything, and as to if it is the word of God, that is all faith, nothing more.

[StriperSniper]

Now, where did they manage to find a copy?

Somebody went out for a 'quickie' at lunch and picked it up with their notebook? ;-)

[nmh]

"Unless you have a copy of HIS handwriting to compare, please concede that humans wrote all you have ever read on anything, and as to if it is the word of God, that is all faith, nothing more."

I don't know what you base your "faith" on, if anything but God isn't a liar. He used people to reveal Himself. He also allowed the personality of the writer to show as well. So, when I come to this:

2Tim.3:16

[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

that's enough for me since I base my FAITH on is written.

BTW, what do you base your "faith" on? BTW, it's unwise to call God a liar which is what you are doing.

[Unassuaged]

No, you are wrong, I called nobody a liar. Your reasoning is circular, as is all reasoning that is predicated on faith, so it is best not to speak of your beliefs as if they are fact. Define 'all scripture'. All that is used curreently by the Cathloics, Mormons? you? David Koresh? Is it all divinly inspired? I have Faith, and I have faith that much was lost in the translation. BTW, you have some gall to say that I am a liar for taking task with your words, you may feel at one with God, but let me assure you, most of the world, and most christians disagree with you.

[nmh]

"No, you are wrong, I called nobody a liar. Your reasoning is circular, as is all reasoning that is predicated on faith, so it is best not to speak of your beliefs as if they are fact."

By suggesting that God didn't get it right - creating all in seven, 24 hour days is calling Him a liar. By your standards my "reasoning" would be "circular" but since I go by what God states and He provides evidence of His word it is not "circular". It is apparent to me you are not and don't wish to be a Bible based Christian. My beliefs are "fact". What are your? Speculation? Or do you have any beliefs?

"Define 'all scripture'. "

2Tim.3 [16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

"All" Scripture is that contained in the Bible. I'll leave it to you to verify the Greek used in the Old Testament. Maybe if YOU do some checking you'll believe what "is written". though doubtful. BTW, EVER do a check on how many times "it is written" is clearly stated throughout the Bible?

"All that is used currently by the Cathloics, Mormons? you? David Koresh? Is it all divinly inspired?"

How low we sink ... surely even you can figure out that what is relied on by ALL you list is not the same. Have you NO clue on what "is written", that you can't figure out the differences in what each you list believes? What is divinely inspired is what "is written" in the Bible.

"I have Faith, and I have faith that much was lost in the translation. BTW, you have some gall to say that I am a liar for taking task with your words, you may feel at one with God, but let me assure you, most of the world, and most Christians disagree with you."

Your "faith" sure isn't based on what "is written" in the Bible. If it was we wouldn't be having this exchange. I don't have gall pointing out your confusion. Your ego and pride prevents you from seeing truth.

Do you really think I care what Christians in name only think? Like you, they are clueless on what it is they are to believe but despise being called on that fact and criticized. From your questions you illustrate what is wrong with "Christians" of this kind.

[Unassuaged]

Stay with me here, I never said that God did or did not do anything. You did, without proof I might add, If you want to think that if you BELIVE in somthing enough that it is made true, then have a good time, but do not pretend that you are being logical. People of faith disagree and kill each other over second hand information. You claim that there is evidence provided? First-hand evidence? Of course not. Not everything is black and white. For example, do you attend Church on the Sabbath or on Sunday? IIRC it was written, both ways, right? Do you eat swine? It was written not to, but then changed. My sole objection to your post was seeing your beliefs stated as fact. p.s. is the most thourghly and rigoursly proven argument in the history of the world, provided you take the first assumption on faith.

[FreedomCalls]

All life came from Clay.

Float like a butterfly
Sting like a bee
I'm Cassius Clay
Not yet Muhammad Ali

[Flightdeck]

"Seven 24 hr days" was written by a man with as many imperfections as you or I. Unless you are willing to say that God himself wrote the bible (and Hebrew scripture) then you must concede that the bible contains errors as anything produced by humans. (Especially the king James version as thrown together by Democritus.) You cannot possibly believe that any human faith conceives perfectly what created us. Evolution may be opposed to what is literally stated in the bible, but it is not opposed to any of the important ideas contained in the bible. And that is what the bible is about, it's message of love, not arbitrary details that are present to facilitate the message.

[nmh]

"Stay with me here, I never said that God did or did not do anything."

You do by denying He created in all in 7, 24 hour days. You insist on evolution and see that as consistent. It's not. So believing in evolution, you call Him a liar.

"You did, without proof I might add, If you want to think that if you BELIVE in somthing enough that it is made true, then have a good time, but do not pretend that you are being logical."

Evidence is all around you if you wish to see. It is you who is illogical. Either you belive Him or you don't. You don't believe Him.

"People of faith disagree and kill each other over second hand information. You claim that there is evidence provided? First-hand evidence? Of course not. Not everything is black and white. For example, do you attend Church on the Sabbath or on Sunday? IIRC it was written, both ways, right? Do you eat swine? It was written not to, but then changed."

Yes, first hand evidence. For those who are onjective, evidence is there. Yes, things are black and white. It is grey for those who don't like right or wrong answers. For those familiar with the New Testament know what day to attend church. Don't you see the hole you dig for yourself through your own examples?

"My sole objection to your post was seeing your beliefs stated as fact. p.s. is the most thourghly and rigoursly proven argument in the history of the world, provided you take the first assumption on faith."

My beliefs are taken from the Bible and God doesn't lie. What He says is fact. It is not unreasonable faith. Evidence backs it up. God doesn't expect us to be willy nilly in what we believe so He backs up what He says. If you'd only read it, you'd understand that fact.

[birg]

"I'm guessing you picked space shuttle, because had you picked airplane, I could have easily pointed to the bird"

Nope. My focus was not on flight. I picked the shuttle as an example of a human hi-tech product THAT WAS CREATED.. I could have picked a manufactured robotic surgeon or the fastest supercomputer etc.
Sea-animals / sea creatures obviously exist as part of the balanced Earth system.. wide variety part of a complex ecosystem.

Why can't the space shuttle speak like a human?

I am really curious to know why COMPLEX humans could have evolved but on the other hand, humans have had to CREATE virtually everything (from available materials) that aids human existence. Computers had to be created... they are not alive per se, even digital systems with some form of pseudo - human neural,audio-visual recognition, speech abilities etc are simply programmed by humans and do not have independent synaptic ability.

[Unassuaged]

While I appreciate your replies, you again falsly accuse me of denying and insisting when I did neither. I made a point, that is all, you seem to have a refex responce, maybe you are confusing me with someone else. I was told by a good christian that my grandma was in heaven, and also that we are not in heaven or hell until J-D. I also was told that basically, the church leaders woke up one morning and said "I am tired of seeing all thouse Jews on the way to church on the Sabbath, lets change it to Sunday! (Good old Seventh-Day Adventists). The Mormons seem to think there is a new, new Testament --It seems God does reveal Himself--so to them, your NT is out of date, still valid, but kinda like the OT, all the real bad stuff was 'changed' Also, I never derided the creation story, after all, it was around long before the Bible!