Is Terri Schiavo Dead? Eat, drink, and vegetate

Reason ^ | 10-23-03 | Ronald Bailey

[ambrose]

October 23, 2003

Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate

Ronald Bailey

Terri Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state since 1990. Her husband wants to withdraw the nutrition and hydration her body has been receiving and allow her body to die. Her mother, father, and sister—and now Florida Governor Jeb Bush—want to continue supplying her body with food and water until... what? She wakes up? Dies of pneumonia?

What is a persistent vegetative state? According to the National Institute for Neurological Disorders and Stroke people in PVS "have lost their thinking abilities and awareness of their surroundings, but retain non-cognitive function and normal sleep patterns. Even though those in a persistent vegetative state lose their higher brain functions, other key functions such as breathing and circulation remain relatively intact. Spontaneous movements may occur, and the eyes may open in response to external stimuli. They may even occasionally grimace, cry, or laugh. Although individuals in a persistent vegetative state may appear somewhat normal, they do not speak and they are unable to respond to commands." People suffering from PVS can generally be distinguished from afflicted but cognitively intact patients who suffer from "locked-in syndrome" by the fact that "locked in" patients can track visual stimuli and use eye blinks for communication.

According to most neurological experts, Terri Schiavo is definitely PVS—her eyes do not really track visual stimuli and she cannot communicate using eye blinks. However, Terri Schiavo's parents have posted several short ambiguous video clips online which are meant to show that Ms. Schiavo responds to stimuli. But what they show seems to fit an AMA's report of how PVS patients can respond to environmental cues without being aware. Specifically, the report notes, "Despite an 'alert demeanor', observation and examination repeatedly fail to demonstrate coherent speech, comprehension of the words of examiners or attendants, or any capacity to initiate or make consistently purposeful movements. Movements are largely confined to reflex withdrawals or posturing in response to noxious or other external stimuli. Since neither visual nor auditory signals require cortical integrity to stimulate brief orienting reflexes, some vegetative patients may turn the head or dart the eyes toward a noise or moving objects. However, PVS patients neither fixate upon nor consistently follow moving objects with the eyes, nor do they show other than startle responses to loud stimuli. They blink when air movements stimulate the cornea but not in the presence of visual threats per se."

Ms. Schiavo has been in this state for 13 years. What are her chances of recovering at least some awareness? Minnesota neurologist Ronald Cranford told the Washington Post, "There has never been a documented case of someone recovering after having been in a persistent vegetative state for more than 3 months. However, the journal Brain Injury reported the case, of a 26-year-old woman who, after being diagnosed as suffering from a persistent vegetative state for six months, recovered consciousness and, though severely disabled, is largely cognitively intact. However, it is generally agreed that if a patient doesn't become responsive before six months, his or her prognosis is extremely poor. A report on PVS by the Australian National Health and Medical Research Council finds that "patients in a state of post-coma unresponsiveness may emerge from it to become responsive," that "the probability of emergence becomes progressively less over time," and that "there is general agreement that emergence is less likely in older people, and in the victims of hypoxic brain damage." Terri Schiavo is the way she is because oxygen was cut off to her brain for 14 minutes; in other words, she suffered severe hypoxic brain damage.

So is Terri Schiavo still alive? The odds are way against it. It's time that her long-suffering parents and the grandstanding politicians let her go in peace.

[PleaseNoMore]

The reason he was deemed not strong enough by his Dr was that he had a stoma as a result of a laryngectomy. She was not willing to risk surgery. She was afraid, plain and simple. She stated this. We later found out, many years later I add, that many laryngectomees undergo similar surgical procedures despite having a stoma ( hole in the throat ).

[FITZ]

Simple solution. Give Michael a divorce --- he can forget about his wife and move on. Let her family be her next guardians.

[DaGman]

"Simple solution. Give Michael a divorce --- he can forget about his wife and move on. Let her family be her next guardians." I've wondered why he didn't just divorce her for a while. Maybe he really does love her and she really did say she wouldn't want to live like this. What a concept, huh?

[MarMema]

What was the actual potassium value at the time of her collapse?

I would sure like to know this as well.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Maybe he really does love her

Enough to shack up with a new ladyfriend, who has a baby by him and another on the way. In the bad, darkened, unenlightened old days this would be referred to as adultery and bastards. Today? He's doin' what he's gotta do.

[I still care]

By the way, I find one of the strangest things about this story that Michael is nurse, but when he found Terri, he not only didn't do CPR, he didn't call 911. He instead called her brother.

I find it so hard to understand why a trained nurse wouldn't start CPR or at least call 911 on finding his wife not breathing. And several work companions testified they told her not to go home that night, because she was fighting with her husband. I know it's a lot of innuendo but it just doesn't seem right.

[PleaseNoMore]

Yep. I agree. Maybe loves her SO much that he had a girlfriend at the time he was swearing under oath to take her home and care for her for the rest of HIS life. He loves her so much that he has lived with another woman for the past 7 years and has children with her. He loves her So much that he bars the people who wish to harm her ( her parents ) from seeing her. Yep, he sure does love Terri. /sarcasm

[FITZ]

Or maybe he doesn't. Apparently --- from the nurses statements, there was no evidence of any love for Terri. Her "wishes" are only what he alone claims, if she really had a burning desire never to be put on a respirator ---- apparently the only desire she might have expressed, it seems she would have got it in writing and maybe even discussed it with other people --- not just him.

Also she had made statements to her friend about wanting out of the marriage, about seeking a divorce ---- certainly that would show her desire to end the marriage --- and that desire should be granted ---- it should carry as much weight as the respirator statement she might have made in determining guardianship.

[tessalu]

God breathed into the nostrils of Adam and he became a living soul! Yes, Terri is indeed a living soul. Genesis
2:7: "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Why did Michael Schaivo just put a sack over Terri's head? It would have been so much kinder than trying to starve her to dead and let her die of thirst. "Thou shalt not kill is a commandment of God."
That means that we should not be killing any person, no matter what our reasoning may be. To kill a person by denial of water and starvation is no better than killing with a gun or putting a sack over Terri Schiavos head. Guardianship of Terri should be given to the parents of Terri immediately. Michael Schiavo has found himself another wife, but Terris parents can never again find a child of their own flesh and blood. The flesh and blood seems to be much thicker than water in this instance.

[TheAngryClam]

So you're anti-war, I take it? What about capital punishment?

[FITZ]

There is also such a thing as "marriage vows" which are what is determining his ownership of Terri ---- but he has broken those vows a long time ago. She should be released from his ownership of her. Broken vows should mean the marriage is no longer valid --- adultery is grounds for divorce almost anywhere.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Dr. Victor Gambone

The one who saw her once every 4 months during the last few years? The one who quit when the feeding tube went back in under Terri's Law?

[FITZ]

Yes --- not just potassium levels, total protein, albumin and of course ketone levels. It wouldn't be too hard to show she starved herself or not. Getting down to 120 pounds when you are 5'3" isn't indication enough for me.

[kaylar]

I'm 5'3" and I weigh 103lbs-I'm neither dead nor skeletal in appearance. Now, if she crashed dieted and went from, say, 160 to 120 in a month using the "Oprah diet"...Yeah, that could do a lot of damage and severely compromise her health.

[texaslil]

What's so dignified about death? Personally I intend to wring out of life every minute I can. No one is pulling the plug on me if I can help it 'til God does.

[george wythe]

Apparently --- from the nurses statements, there was no evidence of any love for Terri. Her "wishes" are only what he alone claims

Apparently, you have chosen to believe only one side.

The courts who have listened to the whole evidence do not find the Schinder side credible, while the courts do find Schiavo's testimony truthful.

I know that in these emotional issues there is very little room for rational debate, and I will expect you to keep repeating this mantra that only "he alone claims" Terry's wishes.

The fact that Terry's brother in law and his wife also testified in favor of Schiavo's claims can be easily dismissed and ignore, with the mantra "he alones claims."

It reminds me of a nasty divorce I witnessed first hand.

The wife accused the husband of child abuse, and she produced the affidavits and testimony to support her case.

The husband accused the wife of raising the kids in a dangerous, deadly cult, and he also produced affidavits and testimony.

Eventually, the courts had to make a decision, and both claims were found to be false and irrelevant to the custody issue. Nevertheless, the people who took sides believed the false allegations.

[EGPWS]

My thoughts exactly. Starvation is a hell of a way to kill somebody.

It is without a doubt. Especially when the said person has done nothing to deserve "killing".

If a person doesn't die on their own, who is Godly enough on the earth to make that decision for them?

I gasp at the thought of the choices available.

[PleaseNoMore]

I'm 5'3" and I weigh 103lbs

I don't like you already. lol! Just kidding. I am 5' even and would LOVE to see those days again! At 120(something) I am now "pudgy".

[kaylar]

The money he got from the malpractice suit is mostly gone. But there's the life insurance policies, which he can collect once she's dead . Supposedly, he gets at least $700,000 when she's dead. MS refuses to confirm or deny the existence of the policy (probably on his lawyer's advice.)

[Salvation]

**
Is Terri Schiavo Dead?

Eat, drink, and vegetate**

In ONE word: NO!