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Judge in Life or Death Case Considered Conservative, Compassionate (Terri Schiavo Case)
AP | 10/25/03 | Vickie Chachere

Posted on 10/25/2003 9:46:41 AM PDT by kattracks

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While these friends and political allies of Judge Greer have such glowing things to say about him, two things from this article struck me.

Judge Greer is blind, so he cannot actually see Terri responding to her parents.

Judge Greer allowed a woman in another case to try therapy. In all the years this case has been before him, why not allow limited therapy in Terri's case also?

1 posted on 10/25/2003 9:46:41 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
I'm not sure I'd call allowing a therapist to administer 'a' treatment session allowing therapy. I don't know of any treatment for health situations such as this that could be expected to show significant results in one session.
2 posted on 10/25/2003 9:53:19 AM PDT by Route66 (America's Mainstreet)
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To: kattracks
FreeRepublic.com "A Conservative News Forum"
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DEFAMATION -- LIBEL: In Florida, Plaintiff Must Prove Falsity
Third District Court of Appeal ^ | March 28, 2003 | COURT OF APPEAL OF FLORIDA, THIRD DISTRICT

Posted on 10/25/2003 12:22 PM EDT by Notwithstanding

Next, in Philadelphia Newspapers, Inc. v. Hepps, 475 U.S. 767, 89 L. Ed. 2d 783, 106 S. Ct. 1558 (1986), the court found that at least where a media defendant is concerned, an actionable statement on matters of public concern must be provable as false by the plaintiff before there can be liability under state defamation law. The Hepps court limited its holding to cases involving media defendants and left open the question of the standard for non-media private defendants raising statements of public concern about public figures. n9 This is precisely the issue presented here. That is, this case raises the question of the applicable [*480] standard for an alleged defamed public official by a private defendant on matters of great public concern.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Footnotes - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

n9 See Hepps, 475 U.S. at 779 n.4.

- - - - - - - - - - - - End Footnotes- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

In the absence of any direct precedent from either the United States Supreme Court or Supreme Court of Florida on this issue, I believe that at the very minimum, the standard set forth in the New York Times [**21] line of cases, requiring actual malice, must govern. See Milkovich, 497 U.S. at 20 n.6 ("prior to Hepps, . . . where public official or public figure plaintiffs were involved, the New York Times rule already required a showing of falsity before liability could result." (citations omitted)).

Since actual malice requires more than the mere publication of a falsity, I believe that footnote 6 of the majority's opinion is misplaced. The ultimate issue here is not whether Horan's statements were false, but rather whether Horan knew or "recklessly disregarded" that his statements were false. See Nodar, 462 So. 2d at 806. Thus, it is not necessary, or even desirable, for Barnes to subpoena and depose the attorneys and sitting judges in Monroe County. n10 Moreover, the results of the "opinion poll," embraced by the majority, could not reliably discern the truth or falsity of Horan's assertions regarding Monroe County's judges' and lawyers' opinions of Barnes as a lawyer and/or candidate. See, e.g., Ollman v. Evans, 242 U.S. App. D.C. 301, 750 F.2d 970, 1006 (D.C. Cir. 1984) (a community's opinion of a plaintiff's stature [**22] in the community is incapable of being adjudicated with any expectation of accuracy). (Bork, J., concurring). Accordingly, I believe that such discovery is impermissible and should not be allowed to take place.

Barnes v. Horan, 841 So. 2d 472, 479-480 (Fla. App. , 2002)

==================

Foremost, we think Hepps [ Philadelphia Newspapers, Inc. v. Hepps, 475 U.S. 767, 106 S. Ct. 1558, 89 L. Ed. 2d 783 (1986)] stands for the proposition that a statement on matters of public concern must be provable as false before there can be liability under state defamation law, at least in situations, like the present, where a media defendant is involved. (footnote omitted) Thus, unlike the statement, "In my opinion Mayor Jones is a liar," the statement, "In my opinion Mayor Jones shows his abysmal ignorance by accepting the teachings of Marx and Lenin," would not be actionable. Hepps ensures that a statement of opinion relating to matters of public concern which does not contain a provably false factual connotation will receive full constitutional protection (footnote omitted).

Next, the Bresler-Letter Carriers-Falwell [**13] line of cases provide protection of statements that cannot "reasonably (be) interpreted as stating actual facts" about an individual. Falwell, 485 U.S., at 50. This provides assurance that public debate will not suffer for lack of "imaginative expression" or the "rhetorical hyperbole" which has traditionally added much to the discourse of our Nation. See id., at 53-55.

The New York Times-Butts and Gertz culpability requirements further ensure that debate on public issues remains "uninhibited, robust, and wide-open," New York Times, 376 U.S., at 270. Thus, HN6where a statement of "opinion" on a matter of public concern reasonably implies false and defamatory facts regarding public figures or officials, those individuals must show that such statements were made with knowledge of their false implications or with reckless disregard of their truth. Similarly, where such a statement involves a private figure on a matter of public concern, a plaintiff must show that the false connotations were made with some level of fault as required by Gertz.

Milkovich, 110 S. Ct. at 2707. Thus, in the instant case [**14] assuming medical costs and insurance are a subject of public concern, which we concede they are, if the statements are capable of being proved false, they are not protected.

Florida Medical Center, Inc. v. New York Post Co., 568 So. 2d 454, 458 (Fla. App. , 1990)
Excerpted - click for full article ^
Source: http://www.3dca.flcourts.org/3d01-2472.pdf


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: LIBEL; TERRI; Click to Add Keyword
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If George Jones is still alive and John Smith has never even been in the same state as George, you can not post "John Smith killed George Jones" without subjecting yourself to a defamation action.

If George Jones is still alive but John Smith is purposefully seeking to have George's respirator turned off - and the case is widely reported in the news and all three branches of government have taken action on the issue - then you can post "John Smith is a murdering SOB" on a forum that notes on every page that all posts are opinions of the authors - without fear of losing any defamation claim.

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3 posted on 10/25/2003 9:53:55 AM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: Route66
This has been going on for 13 years. Why not allow therapy for 6 months out of those thirteen years?
4 posted on 10/25/2003 9:54:46 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
Methinks Judge Greer has got some friends in the media who will be spinning his role in this thing like a top -- particularly with more and more questions being asked about Michael Schiavo's possible culpability in his wife's condition. While Blind Justice may be revered, Stupid Justice seldom is.
5 posted on 10/25/2003 9:54:58 AM PDT by JennysCool
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To: kattracks
I wonder if subconsciously , he's trying to prove that his own state of near-handicap doesn't make him "too sentimental" over questions of handicapped people's rights? If the things the nurses stated in their affadavits are true ("Why doesn't that bitch die?"), PLUS the questions regarding what MS said under oath (never mentioned Terri's wishes to die, said he'd care for her for life) versus how he behaved once the money was in his pocket (no therapy, DNR order) PLUS the questions regarding life insurance policies (which MS neither confirmed nor denied) then at the very least, MS's ability to be a fair guardian for his wife is questionable. And that's not even considering testimony and evidence re: physical abuse prior to Terri's mysterious 'collapse'.
6 posted on 10/25/2003 9:56:26 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kattracks
Judge Greer is blind, so he cannot actually see Terri responding to her parents.

Not necessarily. My husband is legally blind, has not driven for 10 years, but has about 10 degrees of vision correctable to 20-25...he would be able to see the videos just fine. The designation "legally blind" doesn't always mean totally blind.

7 posted on 10/25/2003 10:02:38 AM PDT by FollowingTheGrace
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To: kattracks
No way does this judge qualify as compassionate or conservative!!!

A conservative judge would ALWAYS err on the side of life!
8 posted on 10/25/2003 10:03:58 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: kattracks
The rhetoric is off the charts, but on the other hand, I see no way that this judge could have concluded that the testimony of the husband that Terri would have wanted to die is "clear and convincing evidence" by itself. To me, it looks like the court just made a judgment that this woman's life is not worth living. That is a judgment that our courts are not authorized to make.
9 posted on 10/25/2003 10:05:03 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: kattracks
Sorry, he is not doing the right thing or he would call for an independent medical review of Terri's condition rather than relying on heresay evidence to condemn her to death.

It takes a mighty cold judge to be able to defend a man trying to commit murder and ignore the fact that possibly Terri is not brain dead.
10 posted on 10/25/2003 10:06:42 AM PDT by ClancyJ (It's just not safe to vote Democratic.)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine; Catspaw; AbsoluteJustice; ambrose
LOOK OUT!! With stories like this, people might start to see the judge as....human.

Doesn't sound at all like some folks here have been describing him, huh?

11 posted on 10/25/2003 10:09:20 AM PDT by Long Cut ("when did Saruman The Wise abandon REASON for MADNESS?"...Gandalf The Grey)
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To: ProudToBeGOP
I was legally blind till Sept '03, when I had lasik. Like your husband, my vision was correctable via contacts and glasses so that I could drive, read, etc.But the article says that Greer is unable to drive because of his vision, so obviously contacts and glasses won't fix his problem, and it is apparently inoperable. I wonder if Greer's condition isn't just poor vision (20/1000 vision is legal blindness) like your husband and my presurgery vision, but some other condition which far more severe than what we had/have????? Have no idea what it could be , but it sounds worse than, eg, my severe myopia and the resulting legal blindness.
12 posted on 10/25/2003 10:10:14 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kattracks
A heart attack in 1990 left Terri Schiavo, now 39, in a persistently vegetative state and court-appointed doctors believe there is no hope of recovery. Greer ruled Michael Schiavo showed "clear and convincing" evidence his wife did not want to be kept alive artificially and permitted him to end her nourishment.

These two items are contradicted by the video which clearly shows her to be brain damaged, but not vegetative, and the belief by many that she could be taught to swallow if rehabilitation had not been denied by her husband. This whole case reeks of decaying slime and any objective observer who looks at the video or studies statements by her parents or her caregivers would conclude there is another side that is being ignored by the court and the press. With the unresolved issues of her condition being debated, why not err on the side of caution and let her live in the care of her willing and loving parents? It's obvious that national anti-life and media forces are determined to treat this innocent women with less compassion than they give a convicted, cold-blooded killer. A very sad commentary on the state of our society today.

13 posted on 10/25/2003 10:10:34 AM PDT by CedarDave (I'm a recovering environmentalist - does anyone know of a 12-step program I can join?)
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To: kaylar
To clarify, my husband has retinitis pigmentosa. He is gradually losing his vision and will probably eventually lose it all. He retains a visual field of about 10 degrees (normal is about 160-180). However, he can watch a video.

My point was that Judge Greer might be able to see well enough to view a video while being legally blind.

14 posted on 10/25/2003 10:15:07 AM PDT by FollowingTheGrace
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To: ProudToBeGOP
That's a shame about your husband . :-( As for Greer, I dunno whether his case is comparable to your husband's : He can't drive, but presumably he can read legal papers , so CAN he watch a video? Probably if he can read ,he can get very close to the screen if he has to, so let's assume he can view the video : IF he chooses to. Since the videos were taken in defiance of the express orders of the quote unquote guardian MS, I wonder if they're even admissable????
15 posted on 10/25/2003 10:25:49 AM PDT by kaylar
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To: kaylar
Were ALL of them prohibited? I thought just the last video that was released last week was prohibited.
16 posted on 10/25/2003 10:30:50 AM PDT by Politicalmom
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To: kaylar
Since the videos were taken in defiance of the express orders of the quote unquote guardian MS, I wonder if they're even admissable????

Is admissability (is that a word ;-) an issue here? I thought that only applied to criminal trials. I don't think there's a jury involved here...just a hearing in front of a judge. I too cannot understand the rulings in this case.

17 posted on 10/25/2003 10:31:36 AM PDT by FollowingTheGrace
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To: kattracks
simple solution: make the transcript open to the public. Lets read the details of the actual testimony and see what was said.
18 posted on 10/25/2003 10:33:00 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Long Cut
Wow, the Judge is Human. No kidding. Human garbage.
Terri is Human. The judge however, didn't consider that when he said ok starve and dehydrate her to death. He's going to have to do a lot more to convince people he is compassionate than have articles written about him. I don’t care how they try to portray this judge’s character. His decisions speak volumes. The Judge’s decisions show him as heartless. The judge never gave Terri any opportunity to have any therapy or to have another doctor examine her, other than the one her unfaithful husband bought in. Her unfaithful husband made sure she didn’t receive therapy by the hand of the judge. Her own Father and Mother can't even see Terri when they want to or be consulted as to her condition. You may not have a close family so you may not be able the grasp that concept of how much pain that inflicts on Terri’s family. The judge has shown himself to be one of the cruelest. The judge had an opportunity to make decisions that would have changed this entire situation. May his decisions haunt him for the rest of his life.
19 posted on 10/25/2003 10:38:59 AM PDT by GodBlessUSA
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To: Long Cut
Doesn't sound at all like some folks here have been describing him, huh?

Nope, the Ministers of Propaganda in the Culture of Death mainstream media never paint proponents of their Culture of Death in a bad light, no matter how radical they are in trying to murder the innocent and defenseless.

20 posted on 10/25/2003 10:46:57 AM PDT by ckca
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