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Nobless Oblige - vanity
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| 10/18/03
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Posted on 10/18/2003 6:02:04 PM PDT by Cobra64
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To: FormerlyAnotherLurker
noblesse oblige - the moral obligation of those of high birth, powerful social position, etc., to act with honor, kindliness, generosity, etc. You beat me to it. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who, when wondering about a term or trying to explain what something means, first thinks "check the dictionary".
My favorite quote on it: "Noblesse oblige is felt only by the noble." ("Oscar Gordon" in Glory Road by Robert Heinlein)
It's made clear in that book that Heinlein does not consider it to have any bad connotations - he holds it up as an admirable trait.
To: Cobra64
That said, is there an official "definition" of this term?I have always thought that the poem, "IF", by Rudyard Kipling, was the best "description" of the practice of "noblesse oblige", without the snobbishness so often attributed to simply acting like a "gentleman".
22
posted on
10/18/2003 7:54:33 PM PDT
by
elbucko
To: Joe Bonforte; Cobra64
Excellent ... when I see the term, I think of "Glory Road" also.
And the connotation from the book is when the main character, Oscar Gordon, spends time with a lad, trying to be an inspiration to the lad.
The idea is that the ones who have achieved something should try to give something back (and not is a snively socialist type meaning!!).
I have often heard this term used by war veterans, and it comes up when I have dealt with Medal of Honor recipients! (I occassionally teach a Navy Reserve Officer Leadership course, and have asked a MoH recipient to speak near the end of the course. The talks are always well received. When I asked a MoH recipient to come to the class and speak ... his reaction was almost a "darn, someone else tracked me down ... and I just can't say no!" He felt that the MoH imposed an obligation on him to do these sorts of visits/speeches, etc. While a MoH recipient gets $600/mo (just voted in Congress to go up to $1000/mo) - they probably deserve 5 times that amount based on the speeches and ceremonies that they are asked to attend. But "noblesse oblique" fits the feelings that those guys have!!!
Mike
23
posted on
10/18/2003 8:07:38 PM PDT
by
Vineyard
To: Cobra64
As a veteran shoe-chewer, the phrase "A closed mouth gathers no foot" works for me.
I think I read this in the latest Tom Clancy novel.
To: Maria S
I've never thought "nobless oblige" had a bad connotation. I translate it as meaning something similar to what the Bible says: "To whom much is given, much will be expected." If you've been blessed with more than average wealth, brains, physical prowress, etc., you are expected to not squander your gifts.
Yes. And that's what Dad taught me. We squandered our gifts to the Church and helped our friends get through hard times without being obnoxious. It was touchy trying to help without paying their bills. We'd bring a few hamburgers over instead of sirloins. That would have been a transparrent over-reaction and though some folks don't have a lot of money, if we had flaunt it, my folks would have lost some very dear life-long frinds. To ME, that is the definition of "nobless oblige. " I think the "old man drug me up right."
Thanks for y'all help. Jeffrey will appreciate this when he does battle with the Libs in Berkeley (shi'ite, I can't even spell that name), CA. Cheers to all and pray to God to keep President Bush on course and let's vet the 7,8,9 dwarfs next year. Ya know, this country would be so neat if we had politicians like W who CARED about this nation. /end mentalmouthwash.
25
posted on
10/18/2003 8:35:17 PM PDT
by
Cobra64
(Babes should wear Bullet Bras - www.BulletBras.net)
To: Cobra64
... "nobless oblige"...my old-worldish calculus instructor used to say this to me when he would call me to the blackboard in class - he met the quizzical look I gave him the first time he used the expression with the explanation "you know how to do the problem so come up here and show the class" - it's a sort of beneficent form of "rank has its privileges", something like "rank has its obligations".....
To: Cobra64
I think your understanding of it is quite good. I think it is also spelled "Noblesse Oblige".
27
posted on
10/18/2003 9:02:05 PM PDT
by
Alia
(California -- It's Groovy! Baby!)
To: Cobra64
My take on the term is that while those with power/rank/status have certain privileges, they also have certain responsibilites, to wit to use such privileges with wisdom and restraint,and not primarily focused on self gratification, but rather liberally leavened with an engagement in good works in the service of their nation and community. I don't consider the term to have a negative connotation, but it is a close call. Some do view the term as akin to John D. Rockefeller throwing dimes at the masses, and expecting kudos for doing it.
A more archaic definition perhaps is that the nobility had very defined obligations to their knights, squires, vassels and serfs.
28
posted on
10/18/2003 9:35:43 PM PDT
by
Torie
To: Cobra64
...bend your personality to the indivdual with whom you are conversing... Listen to the laborers thinking, words and listening skills; and respond on his level. On the flip side, when you're negotiating a $50m contract with a supplier, then the conversation changes.... Just remember (and tell your son): "Hay to the ox, and sugar to the parrot."
Translation: You speak to some people at some times in some ways, and other people at other times in other ways.
29
posted on
10/19/2003 1:16:14 AM PDT
by
yankeedame
("Oh, I can take it but I'd much rather dish it out.")
To: Maria S
"I've never thought "nobless oblige" had a bad connotation". It doesn't & the explanation below hit the nail on the head. Jimmy Buffett often uses this phrase. He is very charitable as are ParrotHeads, of which I am one & work on many charities to help those less fortunate, primarily special olympics & make a wish foundation =) I translate it as meaning something similar to what the Bible says: "To whom much is given, much will be expected." If you've been blessed with more than average wealth, brains, physical prowress, etc., you are expected to not squander your gifts. If anyone here would care to make a donation to the special olympics I will be taking the Polar Plunge in February for this cause!
[More Info here] Thank you for the time & God Bless!
To: Michael Maher
I enjoyed reading your profile page. My personal favorite version of 'Green Berets' is by the Texas A&M University band (of which there is NO comparison, IMHO!). You can download it and listen to it (and other Aggie band favorites) at:
http://www.aggieband.org/music.php Good luck on the Polar Plunge! What a terrific contribution you will be making for a wonderful cause!
31
posted on
01/02/2004 6:13:23 PM PST
by
Maria S
("…the end is near…this time, Americans are serious; Bush is not like Clinton." Uday Hussein 4/9/03)
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