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Terri Can Eat With A Spoon
World ^ | Bob Jones

Posted on 10/17/2003 2:03:11 PM PDT by mr_griz

AFTER ALL THE YEARS, ALL THE fighting, all the bitter recriminations, there were remarkably few tears on Oct. 15 when Terri Schiavo finally had her feeding tube removed. Maybe the crowd of 80 or so gathered outside the hospice facility in western Florida were too angry to cry, or too numb.

For her part, Carla Sauer was just too tired. "I've been pulling for Terri since 1995," she said as she sank uncertainly onto a three-legged stool to rest the sandal-clad feet she'd been standing on for five hours. "I still can't believe it's come to this."

"This," apparently, is the end of the line in the long fight to keep Ms. Schiavo alive. A Florida judge on Oct. 14 refused two final appeals from her parents, clearing the way for the removal of the feeding tube that's kept her alive for a half-dozen years. Without the tube, the 39-year-old will slowly starve to death. It should take about 14 days.

That's precisely the outcome her husband, Michael, has been pushing for. Claiming that Terri has been a vegetable since she collapsed after a heart attack in 1990, Mr. Schiavo says he is simply honoring a request made by his young bride: That he not allow doctors to prolong her life through artificial means.

Terri's parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, doubt she ever made such a request. But even if she did, they argue that a feeding tube is not the same as artificial life support. Her vital organs function on their own, she smiles and laughs at the sound of her loved ones' voices, and she has no terminal illness that threatens her life. If she simply has someone who cares enough to feed her, she could live for another 50 years—a condition not terribly different from that of thousands of other severely disabled persons.

"She's not a vegetable," Ms. Sauer insisted as she rested her tired feet. "She knows voices, she responds. She can follow commands, and she tries to communicate by blinking her eyelids 'yes' and 'no.'" And then there's the most important detail of all: "We used to feed her with a spoon, and she swallowed on her own."

That was seven years ago, when Ms. Sauer was a nurse at a rehab facility in Largo, Fla. At that time, Ms. Schiavo was getting physical therapy and full-time attention from skilled nurses. But the facility charged $4,000 a month, as Ms. Sauer recalls, and Mr. Schiavo soon chose to discontinue his wife's therapy and move her into the much cheaper hospice system. She's languished there for six years, tethered to a feeding tube while a fierce legal battle swirled around her.

The Schindlers argued that they should be named as Terri's guardians, in part because Mr. Schiavo now has a new girlfriend and a young child. Just because he's ready to move on with his life, they said, he should not be allowed to end Terri's. When a series of judges sided with Mr. Schiavo, the Schindlers appealed to the court of public opinion: They smuggled a video camera into their daughter's room—against a judge's orders—to show the world she could still laugh and smile and respond to affection.

With Terri now dying slowly, that video may be the Schindlers' final memory of their daughter. Rather than watching by her bedside, they are parked in a camper across the street. Bob Schindler has been charged with contempt of court, and he and his wife cannot visit their daughter without Mr. Schiavo's permission—or his lawyer.

The family tragedy, as painful as it is to watch, is only a part of a larger picture. Advocates for the disabled fear that Terri Schiavo's death could set a chilling precedent. "This is deplorable," Joni Eareckson Tada told WORLD in the midst of a whirlwind of press conferences and rallies. "What's happening here is just a part of a larger effort to class persons with severe cognitive disabilities as non-persons. Terri is not brain dead, she's not in a coma, she's not terminally ill. We have people who attend our weekend retreats who are more severely disabled. Yet the courts have washed their hands of this. Medical personnel are forbidden to deliver any food or water. She's being denied her right to humane treatment under state law.

"This case is a watershed for people with disabilities," Mrs. Tada said. "Removal of the feeding tube means you are promoting active euthanasia. As a quadriplegic woman, that's a frightening precedent."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: caneat; notincoma; schiavo; schindler; terrischiavo; terrischindler; thanksrobertdrobot
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To: Uno Animo
"The more I know men, the more I love animals."

My cats are more merciful to the occasional darwin-driven mouse that finds its way inside.

And they don't have any malice toward the mice either, which is more than we can say for the vipers who are killing Terri.

81 posted on 10/17/2003 3:59:42 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: UnsinkableMollyBrown
Ultimate cop-out? Since when is a person's faith up for YOUR judgement? I was speaking about MY faith.

I'm sorry that what I said upset you so much. I still will always believe that GOD'S will SHOULD trump MAN'S will.

Do I believe in free will? Yes.

Do I believe that men have, and will, do evil? Yes

Do I believe that evil comes from Satan? Yes

Do I believe that God can intercede and do amazing miracles? Yes

BUT.....it is NOT my call. It is God's call.

Again...sorry if you view MY faith as a cop-out.

82 posted on 10/17/2003 4:01:21 PM PDT by justshe (Do you trust a Democrat to protect America?)
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To: paulsy
"There are police stationed at her door. I assume that they will not allow anyone to enter"

What will they do, shoot?

I presume so.

They might be as upset as people pushing in. It will be too late once she's gone. How will history view this?

No one can say for sure, but I'd say the way history views Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot might be a good barometer.

Does this woman WANT to live?

Yes.

83 posted on 10/17/2003 4:02:33 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
*****If God decided that Terri should go home to Him at this hour, no man could stop it. ******

Amen, Pan_Yans Wife, Amen.
84 posted on 10/17/2003 4:02:40 PM PDT by justshe (Do you trust a Democrat to protect America?)
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To: Honestfreedom
Assuming she asked not to be kept alive, did she know she would be starved and dehydrated into an awful death.

Are you seriously asking about what she knew in a hypothetical question? Well, then yes, let's assume, she knew what extraordinary efforts meant, and that definition includes forced feeding.

85 posted on 10/17/2003 4:03:10 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: shadowman99; No More Gore Anymore
What authority does a state governor have over the courts???
86 posted on 10/17/2003 4:03:28 PM PDT by Tempest (The election is over deal with it.)
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To: Don Joe
Does this woman WANT to live?

Yes.

And you know this how?

87 posted on 10/17/2003 4:03:56 PM PDT by TheOtherOne
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To: isrul
After reading your post I'm still not convinced that the governor has the power to overrule a court decision that easily. Do you have anything further to prove your point???
88 posted on 10/17/2003 4:05:33 PM PDT by Tempest (The election is over deal with it.)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
If this were my daughter...I have three daughters in their twenties...I would gather my realtives and friends who would help and march into the hospital and take my daughter out of there and get her somewhere where she could be fed and cared for.

I would not initiate violence...but I would either get her out of there and defend her life against the violence they are already committing upon her, or I would have to be clubbed into unconsciousness in the attempt.

THEY AR STARVING HER TO DEATH FOR GOD'S SAKE!

The violence has already been committed. What are people willing to do to protect the innocent?

If we will not stand for one of our own, innocent children when they are doing this to her...irrespective of whether it is the government or a thug...then we will roll over for anything!

Jeff

89 posted on 10/17/2003 4:06:05 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
I appreciate that, and I agree that if it was my child, I would do the same.

My point is that many are advocating for those at the vigil to storm the hospital. But, these same posters are not going to do that, themselves!

I don't believe Terri's parents want people to do that.
90 posted on 10/17/2003 4:08:30 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (You may forget the one with whom you have laughed, but never the one with whom you have wept.)
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To: shadowman99
I would bet that he could issue an executive order that would stay the court order while the parents appeal. If nothing else, he could use his office to bring media attention to this case. He has options. Sitting in the governor's mansion and acting chickensh*t doesn't impress me.

He asked the best legal minds in the land what he should do. They told him in no uncertain terms how he could save her, and, that he was legally obligated to save her.

He dismissed their advice. I guess he was hoping they'd tell him it's hopeless, so that he'd have an excuse for his continued inaction.

He has no excuse.

His political career is over. Maybe his brother Neil can tell him how to melt down a Savings and Loan. Silverado II?

91 posted on 10/17/2003 4:08:38 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: No More Gore Anymore
no votes for Jeb 2008

What can Jeb do, legally?

92 posted on 10/17/2003 4:09:28 PM PDT by Jeff Gordon (Why can't we all just get along and do things my way?)
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To: paulsy
"No one asked her."

Nor could she eloquently answer if they had. Easier things to ask would be, "Would you like to eat?" or "Do you want to live?"

Essentially, they did. They told her that unless she was able to get herself out of that hospice, they were going to kill her. She immediately became very agitated and tried to get out of her chair.

What is being done to this woman is evil beyond description. Beyond comprehension.

93 posted on 10/17/2003 4:10:49 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: Pan_Yans Wife
The last plea is before the FL Supreme Court. They will decide shortly. I don't think I could do battle against them, at this late hour, and win. And apparently, Gov. Bush agrees.

Nope. Not even close.

Bush could save her inside of an hour. WAY inside of an hour.

But he won't.

It would take something he is congenitally lacking. Character, integrity, and courage.

He is a politician. He is a coward.

His failings have finally caught up with him.

In his efforts to save his job -- by avoiding conflict with the atrocious Florica courts -- he has kissed goodbye to his career.

The man had presidential ambitions. He his vain effort to salvage his term-limited-out governorship, he has destroyed any chance of becoming president.

If he grew a set, and stood up to these monsters, and saved this woman's life, then yes, maybe he would lose his job.

But he would be carried into the White House on the shoulders of millions in the biggest landslide in history.

People are sick and tired of politicians. They yearn for a statesman -- a man with the courage to be a man when it's necessary.

Instead, they get a spineless, gutless wimp, who is handed on a golden platter the opportunity to BE a hero -- and instead, he chooses to be a coward.

Bush is a loser.

94 posted on 10/17/2003 4:18:22 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: Don Joe
He asked the best legal minds in the land what he should do. They told him in no uncertain terms how he could save her, and, that he was legally obligated to save her.

Link?

95 posted on 10/17/2003 4:18:38 PM PDT by Timesink
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To: justshe
It is a cop out for good men to do nothing. If I was living on a quiet street in Hamburg, and I heard a ruckus next door and saw my Jewish neighbors being hauled away, and never spoke up, never demonstrated, never worked actively to change things... but chose instead to sit in the comfort of my home, saying it was God's will, I would be complicit by my inaction.

Even if I did do all those active things, but all the while proclaiming that it was God's will, I would be justifying the evil acts. I would be giving ammo to the enemy. I am not questioning anyone's faith. I am questioning the claim that God wants this to happen. I've heard it many times on these threads, and it is not true. God, on occassion does intervene, and perform mighty miracles on behalf of the oppressed. However, many times He does not, but instead let's those that choose evil carry out their horrid plans and keeps careful record to justly accuse them after they die.

If He intervened in every evil act, pretty soon there would be no choice left but for everyone to choose the right. That would thwart His plan for us, and institute the mother of all dictatorships.

We are responsible for taking a stand. Taking a stand, and couching it with, "if the bad thing happens, it is God's will", almost nullifies your stand. What if the founder's of this nation, at every battle they lost and consoled themselves with "It is God's will." Pretty soon, they would have lost heart and quit trying. Keep the fire, people! Never give up, and Don't say that when evil succeeds, it is God's will!

96 posted on 10/17/2003 4:19:06 PM PDT by UnsinkableMollyBrown
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To: Don Joe
If you are so knowledgeable about Florida law, the statues and laws that are on the books, and the judge's misbehavior, why haven't you filed anything?

You call for Bush's head on a pike, yet you have nothing to show for your efforts.
97 posted on 10/17/2003 4:20:41 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (You may forget the one with whom you have laughed, but never the one with whom you have wept.)
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To: mr_griz
Thank you for posting this. We need to have it "for the record."
98 posted on 10/17/2003 4:21:17 PM PDT by syriacus (Judge Greer---YOU should have looked into Terri's eyes and asked her if she wanted life.)
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To: TheOtherOne
Are you seriously asking about what she knew in a hypothetical question? Well, then yes, let's assume, she knew what extraordinary efforts meant, and that definition includes forced feeding.

"Forced feeding"?

My, aren't we rather free with the language tonight, Mr. Orwell.

BTW, in addition to her food tube NOT being "forced feeding", it was ILLEGAL to withdraw it at the time she "allegedly" made that statement.

In other words, even IF she said "No tubes for me!", she could NOT have been speaking about a FOOD tube, because that was simply not done, period.

Regardless, the fact that the courts have even prohibited SPOON feeding renders your entire absurd excuse for an argument moot.

So, it looks like that's it for The Other One.

Apologies to Jerry Garcia, not to you. :)

99 posted on 10/17/2003 4:24:04 PM PDT by Don Joe
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To: Tempest
What authority does a state governor have over the courts???

Plenty.

Go read the documents on Terri's website -- written in the past few days by the best legal minds in the country, after Bush ASKED them for advice.

Advice, by the way, that he summarily dismissed upon its arrival. I guess he was hoping they'd tell him his hands were tied.

100 posted on 10/17/2003 4:26:09 PM PDT by Don Joe
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