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The N.R.A. Is Naming Names
The New York Times ^ | 10-13-03 | BOB HERBERT

Posted on 10/13/2003 4:01:20 AM PDT by johnny7

The National Rifle Association doesn't call it an enemies list, but deep in the recesses of the organization's Web site is a long, long compilation of the names of groups and individuals that the N.R.A. considers unfriendly.

I'm happy to report that I'm on the list, but my name is truly one among very many. The A.F.L.-C.I.O. is there, and the American Academy of Pediatrics. The Children's Defense Fund and the Lutheran Office for Governmental Affairs are there. The United States Catholic Conference, the U.S. Conference of Mayors and the Y.W.C.A. of the U.S.A. are all there.

Among the celebrities on the list are Dr. Joyce Brothers, Candice Bergen, Walter Cronkite, Doug Flutie, Michelle Pfeiffer, Vinny Testaverde, Moon Zappa and the Temptations. Also on the list are the Kansas City Chiefs, Hallmark Cards, the Sara Lee Corporation, Ben & Jerry's, and Blue Cross and Blue Shield of Kansas City. I'm sure there's a method to the N.R.A. madness, but to tell you the truth, all I can see is the madness.

All of the groups and individuals listed are supposed to be anti-gun. I can't speak for the Kansas City Chiefs or Moon Zappa, but I'm not anti-gun. I think soldiers, the police and certain other law enforcement officials should have guns. Civilians, however, should be required to demonstrate a good reason for having firearms. We should go to great lengths to keep guns out of the hands of children, criminals and insane people. All guns should be registered. And all gun owners should be properly trained and licensed. The N.R.A. sees this as a radical, even lunatic position. So I guess we're at odds.

I asked Andrew Arulanandam, the N.R.A.'s director of public affairs, why the list had been compiled and displayed on the Web site. He said, "We put the list together in response to many requests by our members wanting to know which organizations support the rights of law-abiding Americans to keep and bear arms, and which organizations didn't." I asked what he thought his members would do with the information. He said, "How they use the information is at their own discretion."

I recently read Jules Witcover's book "The Year the Dream Died: Revisiting 1968 in America." The murders that year of Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy were among the great tragedies of U.S. history. Both were killed by freaks with guns. What is not so well known now is that President Lyndon Johnson tried, in the aftermath of the murders, to get Congress to pass legislation requiring the registration of guns and the licensing of owners. The gun lobby fought and killed that effort, and it continues to fight to the death any attempt to bring sanity to the manufacture, sale and possession of guns. Between 1968, the year of Johnson's failure to get his legislation passed, and 2001, the last year for which complete statistics are available, more than one million Americans were killed by firearms.

No number of gun-related fatalities or serious injuries is sufficient to deter the N.R.A. from its fanatical course. A former N.R.A. lawyer has admitted in an affidavit in a lawsuit that distributors and gun dealers have for years been illegally diverting guns that end up in the hands of criminals, and that the industry has closed its eyes to the practice.

Instead of fighting to end this threat to the public's safety, the gun lobby and its allies in Congress are pushing legislation that would protect the practice by granting special immunity from liability to gun manufacturers and sellers.

The big item on the legislative agenda next year is the federal assault-weapons ban signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1994. Because of a sunset provision, the law will expire next September if it is not renewed by Congress and the president. The gun lobby has made it clear that it will do all in its power to bury the ban. The plan is to not even let the issue come up for a vote.

The N.R.A. Web site and its enemies list (which looks like nothing so much as a broad cross-section of America) has led inevitably to a counter Web site, nrablacklist.com, created by a group called stopthenra.com. In addition to facing off against the gun lobby on legislative matters, the new group and its site are inviting people to volunteer for a spot on the N.R.A. enemies list. Ah, free expression. 


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; bang; banglist; guncontrol; nra; rkba
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To: johnny7
All of the groups and individuals listed are supposed to be anti-gun. I can't speak for the Kansas City Chiefs or Moon Zappa, but I'm not anti-gun. I think soldiers, the police and certain other law enforcement officials should have guns. Civilians, however, should be required to demonstrate a good reason for having firearms. We should go to great lengths to keep guns out of the hands of children, criminals and insane people. All guns should be registered. And all gun owners should be properly trained and licensed. The N.R.A. sees this as a radical, even lunatic position. So I guess we're at odds.

Interesting, Bob.
You are not anti gun. But any rational semieducated individual can't help to infer from this article that indeed, that is what you are.
If we didn't have a Constitution, the particular paragraph above would make sense. Fortunately, we do have a Constitution and its language is quite simple and clear. No "demostration of a good reason to have guns" is required. At least the Founding Fathers saw that as so self-evident as not to merit attention.

Playing devils advocate, I will agree that "demonstration of a good reason to own a gun" is necessary.
The fact that police departments at every level have told us that they have neither the ability nor the obligation to protect us from an increasingly growing violent criminal subgroup, most would agree constitutes "good reason", and is a universal right: protection of ones life and ones family.

So yeah. We're at odds. Big time.

"That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." -- GEORGE ORWELL

101 posted on 10/13/2003 9:53:47 AM PDT by Publius6961 (40% of Californians are as dumb as a sack of rocks.)
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To: johnny7
The N.R.A. Web site and its enemies list (which looks like nothing so much as a broad cross-section of America) has led inevitably to a counter Web site, nrablacklist.com

Damn, i went to that website and wanted to see what, if any, celebrities that they would put on their list, but of course they didnt have any.

102 posted on 10/13/2003 9:54:06 AM PDT by chudogg
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To: johnny7
I get it now, its not the governments of the world that have disarmed their civilians, and then proceded to kill at least 170,000,000 of them, after they are defenseless, that should be brought under control! Its the few remaining 'civilians' (mostly in the United States), that should be brought under control, and disarmed. That makes a lot of sense...

I think that most on Free Republic understand this, but for those that don't quite get it, I highly recommend the newly released documentary, put out by JPFO ( www.jpfo.org ).
I just received a copy this weekend, and it will help anyone that has any misgivings about the legal and moral necessity to keep the right to self defense. Its called: "Innocents Betrayed".
103 posted on 10/13/2003 9:59:48 AM PDT by citizenx7
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To: Rebelbase
have they found that one celebs handgun yet ?
104 posted on 10/13/2003 10:06:17 AM PDT by m_cord.
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To: in the Arena
Police are civilians... I'm from the government; I'm here to help you

105 posted on 10/13/2003 11:03:48 AM PDT by eyes_only (DO NOT REMOVE THIS TAG UNDER PENALTY OF LAW)
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To: Publius6961
Interesting, Bob.

You are not anti gun. But any rational semieducated individual can't help to infer from this article that indeed, that is what you are.

Not so. It's not the guns he hates and fears.

It's the owners. Disarm them [us] and he'll feel; so much better, safer to go to what he wants to do next.

Interestingly, he hasn't told us what that is. But I bet that before it's concluded, he won't like it much better than most of the rest of us.

-archy-/-

106 posted on 10/13/2003 11:26:33 AM PDT by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: johnny7
molon labe bump
107 posted on 10/13/2003 11:45:06 AM PDT by soundbits
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To: unixfox
I'm not anti-gun. I think soldiers, the police and certain other law enforcement officials should have guns.

Good little serfs usually get what they deserve.

So do their masters. Eventually.

Activists loaded low-pressure cartridges

Handloading of low-signature rifle cartridges has been "a doubtful proposition" in Finland since the very first years of 20th century. Amongst the first pioneers of special-purpose handloading was the very most valiant National Hero of Finland, EUGEN SCHAUMAN, who executed detestable Russian governor-general NIKOLAY BOBRIKOV with an explosive (mercury-filled ?) bullet from his BROWNING pistol model 1900, and committed a suicide with next two shots, in the June 1904. Schauman died instantly. Bobrikov languished many long hours, moaning in Russian: "Pochemu..? Pochemu..?" ("Why..? Why..?").

Before his death Eugen Schauman was a member of the ACTIVISTS, a troop of daring Finns who planned to release Finland from the Imperium of Russia - by fighting with firearms, if necessary. There were obtained (in 1902) some Swedish 6.5 x 55 mm MAUSER/-96 rifles and (as early as in 1899) the WINCHESTER Model 1894 hunting rifles of caliber .25-35 WCF, for elementary training of the riflemanship and maintaining of the marksmanship by the regular target practice, but also for elimination of the most detestable Russian officials in Finland -- and their Finnish collaborators -- of course. As high-ranking Russian's sycophant as an Attorney General, ELIEL SOISALON-SOININEN was executed, along with some police chiefs, but all of them were eliminated with handguns. These capital punishments were executed after death of N. Bobrikov and Eugen Schauman.

Gun Control - creation of a dictatorship !

Governor-general Bobrikov was fully authorized dictator in Finland since 1903. Among his very first dictations was "A Gracious Act On The Registration And License-compulsion Of The Rifled Fire-arms". Those compulsions were applied to rifled shoulder arms only, including the "gallery rifles", chambered for .22 BB Caps or similar pipsqueaks, known as FLOBERT rounds. Shotguns and handguns were free from registration or license-compulsion. Then-modern military rifles, like Swedish Mauser, were especially risky to possess and use on the outdoor shooting ranges.

Left: Portrait of Governor-general Bobrikov.

Noise of the target practice became a problem. There were some models of the suppressors invented in 1903, but they were not yet produced, except a bulky "sound deadening device" of W.W. GREENER's "Humane Cattle-Killer"; a slaughtering tool. Logical solution was handloading of "silent without silencer" cartridges. Eugen Schauman developed them, or at least he gave information about low-noise loads with lead bullets and the "blue powder" by his letters to the activists all-round the Finland.

Right: Eugen Schauman, a Finnish Independence Activist.

Lost correspondence

Most of those letters are lost forever. They were "too hot material" to possess after the heroic deed and death of Eugen Schauman. Russian "OKHRANA" (the Secret Police; predecessor of KGB) did not believe fully on the claim: "I committed my deed alone, without any conspiration behind me..." A letter, including this statement -- addressed to the emperor of Russia -- was found from the pocket of deceased Schauman. This letter contained many answers to the question: "Pochemu ?", but the Czar of Russia never read it...

The forgotten Deputy Executioner

An other National Hero of Finland, an university student LENNART HOHENTHAL, was made all the necessary preparations for a physical elimination of Bobrikov. He was hired a room with an un-obstacled view to the route from Bobrikov's residence to the governor-general's office. Hohenthal was equipped with a rifle and some handloaded cartridges -- presumably charged with a small dose of the "bluepowder" and a lead bullet. Lennart Hohenthal planned to escape after his deed, without an intention of the "Kamikaze assault". Therefore he was forced to avoid an alarming noise of his planned fatal shots.

Eugen Schauman had, however, a more suitable official position - as an accountant in the Board of Schools. He could meet Bobrikov in a staircase of the Senate House..! Distance of his pistol shots was less than three meters..! Deputy executioner L. Hohenthal eliminated somewhat later the Finnish General Procurator (i.e. Attorney General), a traitor Eliel Soisalon-Soininen -- but with a handgun. He was caught by Okhrana, but escaped with assistance of some other activists. He exiled to Sweden and died there after a long unnoticed life - not so many decades ago - as a forgotten and almost unknown Finnish freedom fighter: "SIC TRANSIT GLORIA MUNDI !"

Although this painting "Attack" by Eetu Isto had to be kept secret, independence activists were shown it to arouse their spirit. The artist has painted the Finnish Maiden as trying to protect the book "LEX", laws of Finland from being torn by the twin-headed Eagle of Imperial Russia. The original painting was sought to be destroyed by Russian authorities without success. Now it is kept in the National Museum of Finland.

Lost handloading data

Just one letter, written by Eugen Schauman to one Communal Health Officer in rural Finland, has escaped confiscations of the Okhrana, or destruction by timid addressees. The physicians and drug-store owners were very important advisers to the handloaders in 1903, because they had the very best scales or "balances" for weighing of the powder charges to the precise search of an optimum reloading combination for each individual rifle, and for indented purpose. With a balance was weighed the volume of each handloader's set of the powder dippers.

There were four different kinds of powder in use: The black powder, a "bluepowder", the "smoke-lacking powder" and a "strong(ly) smoke-lacking powder", according to the nomenclature of Eugen Schauman. The letter was written in Swedish, which was a common language of educated Finns in 1903. Technical vocabulary of Swedish was undeveloped, because smokeless and semi-smokeless powders were novelties in the remote countries, as well as the art of rifle cartridges' reloading with those propellants.

The letter (almost) lacks reloading data, because Schauman was delivered it earlier to the addressee in a parcel, containing a rifle, selection of the bullets and a hundred grams of bluepowder. Weights of the bullets are, unfortunately, not mentioned on the letter, dated in March 12th 1903 and addressed to Doctor A.J. WAREN, Esq., of Orimattila. But the bluepowder was a very strong medicine, and the dosage of it was found necessary to repeat.

"Just what the Doctor orders..."

Doctor Warén was inquired Schauman the loading data for a Swedish 6.5 mm Mauser cartridge for the rifle, previously delivered to him. Eugen Schauman was able to give him reloading hints "from the mouse up to the moose", or from the mildest back-yard practice load up to the full-power charge with the strong smokeless powder.

" -- For the shooting to 20 - 30 meters distance you may load cartridges with 0.20 gram of bluepowder and a spherical bullet of the hardened lead alloy."

"-- For the shooting to 100 - 150 meters, the cartridge loaded with 0.3 gram of bluepowder, along with a long lead-alloy bullet."

"-- To the long-range shooting, up to 400 meters, the cartridge loaded with the smoke-lacking powder along with nickel-jacketed bullet and to still more extended ranges the cartridges loaded with strong(ly) smoke-lacking powder, along with a long nickel-jacketed bullet."

Doctor had the sample bullets and powders, presumably in original boxes and cans. Almost a century later it is very hard to guess right at the "Doc's orders" to his fellow-activists.

Something blue

Mysterious "bluepowder" was some kind of a then-common BULK SHOTGUN POWDER. This is still today THE propellant for reduced-charge rifle cartridges, from the .22 Hornet to 14.5 mm Russian or even the 20 mm anti-tank rifle ammo. (That 14.5 mm -- or ca. caliber .60 -- is, however, the biggest practical caliber for silenced firearms with an usual caliber-sized bullet. More "fat" projectiles are too noisy in the flight, even when flying at less than the Mach 0.9 velocity. The fléches = arrow projectiles, or tubular bullets, may extend the maximum caliber of silenced firearms up to the shotgun gauge 10, or 20 millimeters).

Those bulk powders are no more in production, despite of the demand. American bulk powders were usually made by tearing the bone fiber, compressed from the nitrated cotton, to the small kernels. They were rolled in the rotating drum, making so the tiny "dust-balls", impregnated with a saturated solution of inorganic oxidizing salts -- usually with potassium and barium nitrate -- and dried.

Then those little kernels were moistened with HOFFMANN's DROPS (ether-alcohol mixture), or acetone or aceditin, and rolled in the "candy drum" until surface of the kernels was dry, smooth and hard. They were actually coated with a nitrocellulose lacquer. Before impregnation or after this surface gelatinizing, it was possible to dye the powder kernels with very bright aniline dyes.

Making of the "hottest" powder

An optimum propellant for the rifle "gallery loads", the renowned "E.C. BLANK POWDER" -- mentioned in ARCANE Part 1. -- was made by similar process, but with a very slight percentage of salts and usually without kernel surface gelatinization at all. Gun-cotton fibers were interlaced with a dilute gum-Arabic solution in the "candy drumming" stage of the manufacturing process.

An unwritten textbook

Unfortunately there is unavailable "A COMPLETE BOOK OF THE POWDERS"! So it is impossible to tell the trade-mark or manufacturer of the bluepowder. It was definitively not the German blank cartridge powder (bright yellow) and presumably not the grass-green Belgian "EMERALD".

American DuPONT's "SCHULTZ SHOTGUN" powder was popular in Finland many years after the end of its production in 1926. It was used for forest-bird hunting with 7.62 mm MOSIN-NAGANT rifles, loaded with 7.65 mm Luger bullet or a shortened rifle bullet, weighing 6 grams. Powder charge was one gram or slightly more. Cartridge case was more than half-full, because the bulk powders were "bulky"; id est: Weight of them was light when compared to the volume of a charge. The charges were rather bulky, when compared with modern handgun powders, because of the low calorimetric energy of bulk powders.

The original Dram Equivalence

Semi-smokeless bulk powders were developed for reloading of the shells to the old shotguns, which were never proofed for shooting with smokeless powders. Shotshells were charged by the old -- but still valid -- rule of thumb: Equal volumes of the black powder, bird shots and the wadding. ("Third-third-third" rule).

Earliest bulk powders, like an original "42 Grains SCHULTZ" in 1864, were developed to give an equal muzzle velocity and the chamber pressure, compared with equal volume of the "shotgun grade" black powder. Actual weight of the semi-smokeless powder did not matter. A vast majority of handloaders had never seen the more accurate balance than a steelyard of a butcher or fishmonger.

Charge weights were compared with a volume of a dipper, holding three Avoirdupois drams of CURTIS & HARVEY Nr. 6 black powder (with a very uniform density). Three drams equals 82 grains Avdps. or 5.13 grams. The same volume of original "Sawdust Schultz" weighed 42 grains or 2.72 grams.

"Gone are the days..!"

There were also still less dense bulk powders in the turn of 20th century, like "SMOKELESS DIAMOND" or "E.C. No. 3" with a weight 33 grains, and "AMBERITE" with the weight 28 grains per three drams dipper's volume. (In modern readings had "28 grains bulk powder" the weight-per-volume ratio 9 grains or 0.58 gram per CC). Some most modern powders, like HODGDON "CLAYS/UNIVERSAL", are truly light in weight-per-volume ratio: 0.45 gram per CC, or approximately so..! That is ca. seven grains per CC, or according to the old reading is the Universal powder a "twenty-two grains powder", but PLEASE, NOTE: Do not think ANY of modern smokeless general-purpose powder to be as an old bulk powder ! They may be three or four times as powerful as were the propellants of "Good Old Days"..! Those days are gone...forever ?

WANTED: Information !

The author has not yet all the needed information re DuPont "SCHULTZ SHOTGUN" powder, which was manufactured between 1900 and 1926, mostly for the reloading of shotshells with "bulk-by-bulk" dosage, using a black powder dipper for the distribution. That powder was also recommended for "the light gallery charges in metallic cases." (Recommended by the MANUFACTURER ?? >Jess ! In the FIRST quarter of the 20th century..!)

Powder kernels were irregular in size and shape. Such were most of bulk powders, known in Finland as the Old-fashioned Corned Powders. Who can, and is willing, to tell the COLOR of powder kernels and the DENSITY of this propellant ? It is presumably printed on the powder canister label as: "XX grains (bulk) powder." Some blank lines of Finnish history may become printed by this information.

Lead bullets were plentily available

In 1903 were the lead-alloy bullets available for each & every rifle cartridge, save the most wildest "wildcats". Jacketed bullets were new and unusual projectiles in Finland. Still, in early 1930's, more than 30 years after the date of Eugen Schauman's letter to Dr. Warén, a German "WAFFEN UND MUNITION"/"ARMS AND AMMUNITION" catalog listed more than thirty cast lead-alloy bullets for handloaders of the rifle cartridges, in several calibers from .22 to .45.

There were also spherical lead buckshots and air-rifle pellets listed for loaders of the "gallery practice" rifle cartridges. Air-gun pellets were not yet of a frail Diabolo-design, but the neat conical-pointed Minié-shaped slugs in several calibers up to 6.5 mm. Two kinds of lubrication-grooved cast bullets for Swedish 6.5 mm Mauser rifle were listed on the W.u.M-catalog: A round-pointed slug, weighing 4.15 grams, and a flat-nosed bullet; weight 4.30 grams.

("Imperial" weights were 64 grains and 66.4 grains). Bullet diameter was 6.72 mm and the price 53:57 US-$ per a hundred... kilograms ! Not so high price, because there were almost 24100 round-pointed bullets in the delivery crate, net weight 100 kilograms. In the very same year 1934 was the possession of a firearm's silencer rated at $ 200:00 by a strict provision, "LEX MORGENTHAU" -- a.k.a. Federal Firearms Act -- in the United States of America.

"The bloodstained shirt of Eugen Schauman (1875-1904). On the 16th of June 1904, Schauman assassinated N.I. Bobrikov, the Russian Governor-General of Finland, on the staircase of the Senate building in Helsinki, after which he shot himself.

-- Photo Matti Huuhka / National Board of Antiquities"

Schauman's shirt is on display at the National Museum of Finland, their version of our Smithsonian Institution Museum.

108 posted on 10/13/2003 11:46:32 AM PDT by archy (Angiloj! Mia kusenveturilo estas plena da angiloj!)
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To: Kevin Curry
Only for the peasants. Arnold and Feinstein would still be armed.
109 posted on 10/13/2003 12:13:58 PM PDT by Roscoe
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To: TN4Liberty
"That is 28,571 people per year. I don't believe that for a second."

I believe it's pobably true, but he doesn't say that it includes all homicides, including justifiable homicides committed by civilans and the police(4 - 5 to 1 ratio in favor of civilians,BTW), suicides and accidental shootings.
I think the suicide by guns percentage is quite large, maybe greater than 40%.
110 posted on 10/13/2003 1:35:49 PM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: Rebelbase
"Three more supporters of gun control."

I don't know if Saddam's pic should have been posted. Gun ownership was tolerated and prevalent. Iraqis are always blasting off at weddings. It was one of the things I couldn't understand why they didn't rise up and overthrow his regime. I think their ethnic make-up and the all pervasive secret police might explain it.


111 posted on 10/13/2003 1:43:09 PM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: OXENinFLA
Excellent post #23.
112 posted on 10/13/2003 1:45:02 PM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: FreedomPoster
"It is worth reminding everyone that Levi-Strauss makes the Dockers line of clothing as well."

Didn't Levi also annouce just recently that it would stop making jeans in this country?


113 posted on 10/13/2003 1:52:30 PM PDT by neverdem (Say a prayer for New York both for it's lefty statism and the probability the city will be hit again)
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To: neverdem
I believe you are correct.
114 posted on 10/13/2003 2:12:20 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (In for the monthly deal since 3 quarterlies ago - support Free Republic!)
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To: johnny7
I think soldiers, the police and certain other law enforcement officials should have guns. Civilians, however, should be required to demonstrate a good reason for having firearms.

Umm..."the police and certain other law enforcement officials" are civilians.

115 posted on 10/13/2003 2:14:38 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Joe Brower
"Well, at some point they will "get it..."

(+)


116 posted on 10/13/2003 2:16:14 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear; FourPeas; Freeper 007; from occupied ga; ccmay; donmeaker; lepton; ...
Some interesting data:

Source...National Vital Statistics Report,Vol.50,No.15,September 16,2002 69

For the year 2000,

Total firearms deaths = 28663
Accidental firearms deaths = 776
Suicide = 16,586
(Suicide whites - 14,454, blacks - 1,090)
Deaths due to assault w/ firearm = 10,801
(Assault deaths whites - 4,806, blacks - 5,699)
Legal intervention (I assume these are "good shoots") = 270
Undetermined intent = 230

Thanks to those who replied to my skepticism. The 28,000 number is valid depending on how it was interpreted, but the suicide numbers (about 60 percent of the total deaths) is the remarkable part. Also the difference in races comparing suicides and homicides is striking.
117 posted on 10/13/2003 3:03:34 PM PDT by TN4Liberty
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To: neverdem
You have a point. Maybe Pol Pot would have been a better choice.
118 posted on 10/13/2003 3:38:26 PM PDT by Rebelbase
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To: johnny7
I'm not anti-gun speech. I think soldiers, the police and certain other law and government enforcement officials should have guns be able to speak their minds. Civilians, however, should be required to demonstrate a good reason for having firearms wanting to speak their minds.

Do it to one God-given right, might as well do it to all of them.

119 posted on 10/13/2003 3:49:43 PM PDT by dpa5923 (Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
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To: OXENinFLA
Excellent response!
120 posted on 10/13/2003 3:51:15 PM PDT by dpa5923 (Small minds talk about people, normal minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas.)
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