Posted on 08/04/2003 6:12:09 AM PDT by Brian S
Sure, you're behind on some bills, but nobody deserves to be treated like this.
Badgering phone calls and threats, insults and outright lies -- these are just a few of the unfair and illegal tactics that some debt collectors unleash on consumers. These rogue collectors don't represent the entire industry, but they are not uncommon.
"It's just threats and intimidation, but you keep it vague," says Michael Flannagan, a former debt-collection supervisor in Tacoma, Wash. "A lot of things bill collectors do are downright dirty and illegal."
Third-party collectors, agencies hired by creditors to collect unpaid bills, are some of the most abusive.
Just ask Angela M., a mother of two, in Denton, Texas. She fell behind on four credit card bills in late 2001.
"When it went to the collection agencies, it turned really personal," Angela says.
"They called me a deadbeat. They called me a criminal. I had perfect, spotless credit before this happened."
Angela's roughly $40,000 in overdue debt stems from a small business. She opened a children's boutique in 1998.
One debt collector accused her of running up her credit card balances with no intention of paying.
One collector told her to sell her house. Another threatened her home. One debt collector scolded her for taking her children to Chuck E. Cheese for pizza. Another collector told Angela, who is expecting another child, that she had no business being pregnant.
The calls were constant and the insults seemed endless.
"They were calling all the time and I told them I couldn't pay and they would just keep calling," Angela says.
"I was terrified. I thought I was going to end up in debtor's prison or at least lose my home."
Intimidation usually works
And that's exactly how a debt collector wants you to feel. They figure if they harass you enough, you'll pay up.
"The collection industry is sometimes so motivated to collect that they'll do anything and I mean anything to accomplish that," says Peter Barry, a consumer rights trial lawyer in St. Paul, Minn.
It doesn't matter that you don't have the money or that you have more important bills to pay first. It doesn't matter that you were sick or had an accident or lost your job.
"You're just an account number they need to get money out of," says Mary Fons, a consumer protection attorney in Stoughton, Wisc.
It may not even matter that it's not your bill.
"Many times the abuse continues anyway, even though it's not that person's bill," Fons says. "They just expect people are lying to them and that's how they treat people."
Not only is this kind of harassment rude and uncalled for, it's illegal.
Know the rules
The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act was passed in 1977 to protect consumers from abusive debt collectors. There's a whole list of rules third-party debt collectors must follow when collecting a debt.
All those brutal insults and threats aren't supposed to happen. For a summary of federal debt collection rules, click here.
Unfortunately for consumers, some debt collectors violate the law on a regular basis.
They'll threaten to garnish your wages or take away your car or home when they have no right or intent to do so. They'll threaten to press criminal charges.
"They threaten to get the police involved as if not paying a civil debt is a criminal matter," Fons says.
A dirty debt collector will call you at all hours of the day. They'll threaten to tell an employer or spouse or relative about your debt. They'll call you at work after you told them not to contact you while you're working.
"Even if they told you not to call them at work, how do you prove they told you?" Flannagan says. "You bend the rules when they can't prove it."
They'll call your employer several times in a single day to frustrate and embarrass you.
"I had one case where they placed 16 phone calls in 10 minutes to a lady at work," says Jerry Jarzombek, a consumer attorney in Fort Worth, Texas.
A debt collector could even inflate the amount you owe. How much could a debt collector up your bill? One family bounced a $12 check to Papa John's. A debt collector demanded $140.
"It's just rampant profiteering," says Rob Treinen, a consumer attorney in Albuquerque, N.M. "They tried to collect a lot more than allowed by law, more than 10 times the amount."
Why do some debt collectors violate the Fair Debt Collections Practices Act so often? Because they know they can get away with it.
"The odds are very small that you're going to get caught," Flannagan says.
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Few consumers are aware of their rights, so they take whatever abuse a debt collector decides to dish out. "They don't know better," Flannagan says. And many consumers feel so stressed out and demoralized that they keep right on taking the abuse. "They think 'I didn't pay my bills so I deserve to be treated this awful way,' '' Fons says. "They don't know they can get help." They don't know the law is on their side and they can fight back. The Fair Debt Collection Practices Act gives consumers the power to strike back against abusive debt collectors. The right to stop contact It's a good idea to send the letter certified mail, so you'll have proof that the debt collector received it. Once the collector receives your letter, they may not contact you again except to say there will be no further contact or to notify you that the debt collector or the creditor intends to take some specific action. Will firing off a letter to debt collector that tells them to stop contacting you actually work? Will the threatening phone calls stop just like that? "More than half the time, yes, because then you've made a paper trail," says Fons, whose handled debt collection cases for consumers for 15 years. "Some don't because they don't care. Some don't because they're disorganized." Keep in mind that sending a letter to a collector will not make a debt go away if you owe the money. The debt collector or your original creditor may still sue you. The right to dispute a debt. A collector may only renew collection activities if proof of the debt, such as a copy of a bill, is sent to you. The right to sue. For more details and tips on how to fight back against a debt collector, check out this article from Bankrate.com. Whatever strategy you choose, it's important to get proof of any harassment. "I tell people all the time, 'If you can't prove it, it didn't happen,''' Jarzombek says. "That's my line of lines." If a debt collector is breaking the law and harassing you, you'll need evidence. File all collection letters and keep detailed notes of collection calls. Note the day and time of each call, the name of the collection agency, the first and last name of the caller and what was said. Make a tape of each collection phone call. Flicking on a tape recorder is a great way to swing back at an abusive debt collector. Thirty-five states and the District of Columbia allow you to secretly tape your phone conversations. For a listing of states, check out this chart. In the other 15 states, you can tape with the other party's permission. And if you tell the debt collector you are going to tape and he or she keeps talking, that's considered giving permission. "Just having that recorder on will keep a bill collector on the up and up," Flannagan says. After contacting an attorney and learning about her rights, Angela M. started taping calls from debt collectors. She won't even talk to a debt collector if her tape recorder isn't going. "Nine times out of 10 they say things they shouldn't," Angela says. "If you don't have it taped, it's just your word against theirs." Even with the aid of a tape recorder, going toe-to-toe with a debt collector is no easy task. These folks are experts at intimidation. "It can be exhausting at first. It can be stressful when talking to people who are so mean and so brutal," Angela says. "After awhile you feel like a crusader. You're out there and you' re not letting people get away with harassment." She encourages other folks who are feeling harassed by debt collectors to fight back. "Stand up to them," Angela says. "Look at it as you're standing up for the little people." |
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Here in VT a tenant has 30 days after an eviction notice. Sort of.... You can NOT evict anyone betwen November and March. The thinking here is that you can't put anyone out in the cold. Also there is lanlord-tenant mediation that a tenant can drag you through. If they lose in mediation they will take you to court. A real operator can live rent free for 18 months and then leave you with an unusable apartment.
Last Friday's check is down to less than twelve dollars? Unbelievable!!!
My sister worked in a bank way back when you could 'float' a check. These days of technology you can't do that anymore. The check I write to my church on Sunday is already processed and cleared by Tuesday.The preacher once told me we'd be surprised how many people write rubber checks to the church.They raise their hands and promise to give to a special cause and then write a hot check. They call it "giving in faith" LOL!
My friend promptly stood up and took out his keys and dropped them on the manager's desk. He said the bank could have the car, he didn't need to be driving a car like that around anyway and turned to walk out. The bank manager followed him out asking him not to be too hasty, that things can be arranged. He ended up calling off the dogs, they arranged some kind of extension deal and cleaned up a couple of late payments on his credit report due to the car.
I'm not saying "You're wrong" but that can't be right. Otherwise, the rent market would dry up and leave the state. Rental laws can change from town to town. Are you a landlord?
Also, I notice many people have quotes in parentheses after their screen name including you. I can't figure out how it is done. Can you tell me?
We used to take a pin and jab holes in the routing numbers along the bottom of the check to trip up the bank scanners.
If an tenant doesn't pay by a certain date, ie: the first of the month, do you proceed with the eviction notice right away?
I usually charge a daily late fee ($20 + $5/Day) after a 7 day grace period. After that I usually give them a couple weeks just in case they have problems (cause I'm a nice guy, and don't want to give eviction notices for people a week late). Then I give them a eviction notice telling them to either pay up or move out within the next 2 weeks. This isn't legal since only a magistate can evict. Come 2 weeks, I show up and tell them pay up immediately or get taken to court. If they have a really plausible story, I might give them a few extra days. If not, I get their info together and take it to the magistrate. The magistrate clerk charges me $50-$75 and sets up a hearing 10 days later. She gets the tenants served with notice. Then if the tenant has dodged the process server, then they will reschedule it in another 10 days. At the hearing, the tenant will show up or not. If he does, he will tell all kind of horrible lies about you, saying that everyhing is your fault, that you made all kinds of verbal commitments and that nothing was their fault. They tell the magistrate that if they can have just another month or two, they can get caught up and pay in full. The magistrate will calmly ask you if this is acceptable to you? You know it is BS and say absolutely not. Then the magistrate will tell the tenant that they must move. He will ask them when they can be out by. They give him some kind of sob story. He may give them as long as he wants. The most I've got has been a month. At that date, they are either gone or not. If not, its back to the magistates office where the magistrate will file an order with the Sheriff. Once the sheriff receives the order, he will wait 10 days and then send a deputy to move them out.
At the magistrate hearing, the magistrate will also award you damages if you can prove that you deserve them. You can get awarded damages for back rent and fees. This is why I charge $5/day. You cannot get damages if they have destroyed your place. For that you need to file a separate action and have another hearing. If they don't pay what the court tells them to, you can garnish their wages (if you can find them and they have a job), put a hold on their checking account (if you can find them and you know their checking account number and they haven't closed the account), or attach their personal property (if you can find them and they are dumb enough to leave their personal property there for 90 days). All cost a fee and give very little hope of getting any $$ back. They do blemish their credit for 10 years though.
Of course this doesn't take into account the occasional tenant who is a good liar. They can string you out for a little while with a story about a big check that they will be receiving from the IRS, the insurance co, the financial aid office or whoever. I used to believe some of these stories if the person sounded sincere, but no more. Also, right before going in to the magistrate, they will often offer to pay you in full with a check if you withdraw the complaint. You can just see their faces drop when you smile at them and say, "Sure, but it has to be a money order."
Is the rental market very soft in your area?
I think so. For the last couple of years anyway.
Do you collect a last month rent or a cleaning deposit when you first rent the place out?
Yes, a security deposit. If they stay for the full year of their lease, they usually don't pay their last month or 2 of rent though. They know they'll be out before they can be evicted. Then they leave the place trashed. You can threaten legal action, but they have to care.
What do you rent, apartments or single family homes?
Apartments. Typically to college students, but I haven't had any better luck with town folk or HUDies.
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