[newzjunkey]

"By Jone's "logic", anyone professing a belief in God can have their lease or contract with the federal government cancelled by the first court that they see."

I don't think so. This is talking about an organization's requirements *and* (maybe more importantly) the "sweetheart" deal this lease represents. The Scouts aren't paying fair market value, didn't have to compete for the lease or anything. It's just about what the judge has indicted it for: the rubberstamp of approve from a government body because of an organization "values" which require a profession of faith from its members.

I have no problem with this slap down. I don't particularly care for the BSOA program nor this sort of gov't welfare or wink-wink endorsement of a particular set of faith-based values which are imposed upon the membership and the staff: must believe in God, must not be homosexual, etc.

Government is of *ALL* the People, not just the Christian Right and their pet organizations. Sorry.

[AlexW]

"Under terms of the lease, the Scouts must spend $1.7 million over the next seven years to upgrade Camp Balboa.
The Scouts also are required to pay the city an annual administrative fee initially set at $2,500.
The council used its own money to construct and maintain Camp Balboa, according to the release,
building nine camp sites, bringing water and power to the property, and building a swimming pool,
parking lot, restroom and showers, meeting rooms, and a residence and office for a camp ranger."

How do you equate this with a "sweetheart deal"???

I was a boy scout, and there was never a pledge to any religion.
We had scouts that were Christian, we had scouts that were Jewish, and we probably had scouts that were nothing.
Thats not what I would call "Christian right"

The scout oath has nothing more then the words that are printed on every dollar bill,
"In God we trust"

Do you REALLY have such a problem with this??

[VRWC_minion]

The Scouts aren't paying fair market value

Making 1.7 million in improvments, plus the intangibles that Scouts provide like stewardship of the premises etc ? Would another tenant have a constant supply of eagle scouts doing improvements ? Would another tenant have on site scout masters and rangers policing the premises ? Have you factored in the costs of these into your calculation of arms length lease value ?

[nevergore]

You obviously have little understanding of the Scout Program.....The Scout program has Muslim, Hindu, Jewish Catholic, Baptist, Protetstant groups for chartered suppport organizations...Churches, synagoges, mosques etc.

Scouts are of all religions backgrounds, beliefs and enthnicity....

The sweetheart deal you referenced is not for the Scouts, but for the city....The Scouts took raw uniproved city land and built a fully functioning camp...The Scouts were to improve the campsite at their material cost of $1.7 Million of the next couple of years which does not take into account the thousands of volunteer hours poured in by parents and scouts toward the projects goal....

The Scout organization DOES NOT require adherence to a specific God just that each Scout/Leader have a general belief system.

It will not allow homosexuals into an all-boy/male organization. This is freedom of association.... a basic tenet of our constitution....There is no discrimination based on race, religion, color or creed.....

NeverGore

[Eaker]

pet organizations

So the Boy Scouts are a pet organization? Nothing more?

You still have time to ask the Admin Mod to pull your post. If you don't then you have lost all credibility and will be known as a Clinton supporting fag sympathizer.

Everything that you do to support Queer Nation, puts a little boy closer to a campout / sleepfest with a sodomite.

I am not trying to be harsh, but if it walks like a duck............

Eaker

[Publius6961]

Government is of *ALL* the People, not just the Christian Right and their pet organizations. Sorry.

I'm sorry too, Bruce, but subject to clear limitations anyone can read, the majority get to decide the rules.

Imaginary "hurt feelings" is not one of the protections in the Constitution.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Yeah! You tell them! God forbid (oops... did I say 'God'? My apologies for offending your delicate sensibilities) that they choose to lease the land to an organization that will actually develop it, provide facilities, and manage it all with their own money for the greater good of *ALL*, including those who don't believe in a 'god'...


I mean, that has to be right up there on the list of all-time boneheaded moves that a governmental entity could make. I doubt we will ever recover from the societal damage caused by such a grave injustice. Just what in the Hel;l were those city officials thinking? We should burn them at the stake. Who's with me?

(That was sarcasm, in case you hadn't guessed)

[ohioman]

Well, coming from a butt pirate such as yourself, it is no surprise you are against the Scouts. Your posts always display weakness.

[O.C. - Old Cracker]

I have no problem with this slap down. I don't particularly care for the BSOA program nor this sort of gov't welfare or wink-wink endorsement of a particular set of faith-based values which are imposed upon the membership and the staff: must believe in God, must not be homosexual, etc.

Sounds like someone with a heavy burden and an axe to grind against his/her Creator.

[skinkinthegrass]

your prime DU material...think,slap,think,slap,slap,think.

[Proud Legions]

Having been involved with Scouting for many years, it is obvious to me that you have little experience with the organization. So sad that you write about something of which you know so little. The Scouts ALWAYS improve any of the land or facilites that they are permitted to use, and do so for the public use/public good...and through donations and lots of hard work, rather than your tax dollar. There are provate organizations all over that use public facilites, and without having to bid for them. For instance, many public schools in CA have Gay/Lesbian Clubs, and you cannot join UNLESS you prefess a belief that there is nothing abnormal nor morally wrong with homosexuality. Hmmm...

[RonF]

I don't think so. This is talking about an organization's requirements *and* (maybe more importantly) the "sweetheart" deal this lease represents. The Scouts aren't paying fair market value, didn't have to compete for the lease or anything.

Not true. You discount both the already extensive improvements the Council has made on the land; the additional improvements that they had pledged to make to the land; the fact that the BSA represents a large fraction of the public; and the fact that other non-BSA members of the public would have access tot he property and facilities.

[Myrddin]

Fair is fair. I want to see some accounting for all the taxpayer money that is subsidizing gay and lesbian activities. Are they paying fair market value? Why is the city involved in hospice programs? The gays and lesbians can't have it both ways.

[El Gato]

the Christian Right and their pet organizations

What about all those Muslim Scouts, Jewish Scouts, Hindu Scouts and Buddist Scouts?

The legal question doesn't revolve around religion at all. The question is whether or not the "sweetheart deal" is in the public interest. For generations the answer was yes. It's also not a question for the courts, but rather for legislatures, in this case a city council.

[Sam Cree]

Are you Ok with it being justified with the 1st amendment?

[Kevin Curry]

I don't think so. This is talking about an organization's requirements *and* (maybe more importantly) the "sweetheart" deal this lease represents. The Scouts aren't paying fair market value, didn't have to compete for the lease or anything.

The built the park at their expense, they pay $2,500 a year in administrstive fees, and are required to pay $1.7 million to upgrade and maintain the facilities. That's a "sweatheart" deal?

Next time take ten seconds to read the article before you open the door of your liberal/libertarian mental latrine and let the muck flow into cyberspace.