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To: freekitty
Unfortunately, when you are living cheek by jowl with countless other "neighbors" and sharing walls, heat/air conditioning ducts, plumbing pipes, stairwells, hallways, etc., it is necessary to have homeowner associations.

If SOME rules are not enforced (and usually that is very difficult, anyway, but the more civilized people usually agree this is necessary) these places end up looking like tenements. I know whereof I speak -- lived in a condo in a community of nothing but apartments and condos/townhouses I call "helltown" (it's covenient but I am now moving to a house, also a locale convenience issue) for over 20 years.

FYI, just in case you did not not know, smoke and other odors, whether from cigars, cigarettes, cooking, marijuana, free-basing cocaine, etc., all filter through into neighbor's units.

This smoke issue, in particular, causes BIG problems for many people. One pregnant neighbor comes immediately to mind. Flame away, but the right to breathe smoke free air by the pregnant woman SHOULD supersede some person's "right" to light up non-stop in his/her unit.

As a former smoker, and child of the sixties, I tend to go easy on the smokers but if I had an allergy to smoke/odors, or was pregnant, I can tell you I'd be complaining, too. We're in the midst of several such battles at my complex right now.

It sure WOULD be easier to say "no smoking" (we DO NOT PERMIT IT in enclosed stairwells, thank God) but then we have all those perceived "rights" to deal with. People used to use something called common sense coupled with CONSIDERATION -- now it's all about "this is the USA and I can do what I want."

Well, NO you can't always do exactly as you please and a little cooperation would go a long way. One man in the complex DOES show consideration and only lights a cigar when he knows his downstairs neighbor, who gets very sick from it, is not home. They have a very friendly agreement about this.

Not everyone can afford his/her own house, unfortunately, but subjecting everyone around you to the habits of a few is not reasonable.

As for the contention that there are more smokers than non-smokers; well, not in this country there aren't -- perhaps in some communities but definitely not in my state.
9 posted on 06/01/2003 11:03:21 AM PDT by CarmelValleyite
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To: CarmelValleyite
As for the contention that there are more smokers than non-smokers; well, not in this country there aren't -- perhaps in some communities but definitely not in my state.

It wasn't a contention it was a typo, See post #6

10 posted on 06/01/2003 11:20:41 AM PDT by qam1 (Compared to George Pataki -> Hillary Clinton and Grey Davis are ultra-right wingers)
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To: CarmelValleyite
As an owner of rentals, I no longer allow smokers. Why? Complaints from others about smells, and the extensive cleaning needed of EVERYTHING: walls, light fixtures, heating ducts, etc., after move out. I used to smoke. After cleaning a unit of a smoker after move-out, and looking at the water in the bucket...slimy, gold/brown...ick! I thought about my lungs and quit cold turkey. The next time we had a smoker move out, I took my kids along to "help" even though they were really too little. They emptied the water, and we had a nice talk about it. They are all grown up now and smoke free. I am not a nazi, I know it is a legal drug, but it is addictive, and the tobacco companies did lie about that. Now, if someone makes the choice, they know what they are getting into.
And all you smokers who want to jump on me about how it really doesn't hurt anybody, save your breath. (that is a small attempt at humor) My second-stage-of-life career, after raising kids, is now respiratory therapy. I watch the families suffer as they deal with the slow deaths of their loved ones from COPD and cancer as a direct consequence of years of smoking. It hurts more that the one who lights up.
Try to quit...you won't miss it as much as they will miss you.
11 posted on 06/01/2003 11:40:40 AM PDT by Bekki4Bush
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To: CarmelValleyite
I do have problems with what you said.

For one if the ventilation of an apartment complex is that bad that smoke from a cigarette from somebody else's apartment seeps into your apartment than 2nd hand smoke is the least of your worries because that would mean all other nasty stuff like car and oven exhaust, chemicals from the paint and carpets and fumes from the boiler which are more concentrated (albiet less detectable)than cigarette smoke are also seeping in. Plus just throwing people out into the street to smoke would also cause 2nd smoke to seep in through open windows.

Secondly, I am sure most smokers are OK with reasonable considerations. However the antismoking hysteria has in many cases thrown all reason out the window. Case in point the story you posted about the guy who was downstairs who didn't like the guy smoking upstairs. Now unless your complex is constantly subject to hurricane force downdrafts or the laws of physics there are somehow different than the rest of the Universe there is obviously something really wrong with that story and that is the problem. There is for whatever reason a lot of people who exsist in this world who are generally lonely and misable and the only joy in life they get is complaining about or tattling on other people. In many cases other people smoking even if it has no effect on them is just another avenue for them to get their jollys complaining, If it's not smoking it's something else. By forcing burdensome regulations on some people you are only encouraging them and yeah just what the courts need more friviolus lawsuits.

12 posted on 06/01/2003 11:49:36 AM PDT by qam1 (Compared to George Pataki -> Hillary Clinton and Grey Davis are ultra-right wingers)
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To: CarmelValleyite
FYI, just in case you did not not know, smoke and other odors, whether from cigars, cigarettes, cooking, marijuana, free-basing cocaine, etc., all filter through into neighbor's units.

This is all totally overblown. For generations people lived with in the confines of apartment buildings and lived with it all, without complaint. In this day and age of improved venitlations sytems, sound proofing, etc. in apartment/condo complexes all I can see is a generation of whining babies.

23 posted on 06/01/2003 12:23:20 PM PDT by Gabz (anti-smokers = personification of everything wrong in this country)
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To: CarmelValleyite
How much does a two-bedroom apartment go for in Carmel Valley?

I used to live in Monterey 1966-70.

31 posted on 06/01/2003 2:03:36 PM PDT by Old Professer
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