Internet smokes put out for good

New York Daily News ^ | 2/14/03 | ROBERT GEARTY and WILLIAM SHERMAN

[kattracks]

Internet sales of tax-free cigarettes in New York State went up in smoke yesterday after a federal appeals court upheld a state ban on direct sales to consumers.

The ruling means more than $700 million a year in increased tax revenues for the state, according to estimates.

But it's a big blow to city smokers who save more than $4 a pack by buying online or ordering from Indian reservations that have tax-exempt status.

The ruling also applies to cigarette sales by telephone and by mail, according to Attorney General Eliot Spitzer.

The decision by a three-judge panel of the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals overturned a lower court ruling that found a state law unconstitutional.

Cigarette companies, including Brown & Williamson Tobacco, had challenged the 2000 law, saying it discriminates against interstate commerce, restricting access to a product.

But in a 44-page opinion, the appeals court said the state law "does not prohibit New York consumers' access to cigarettes ... it merely requires that they purchase cigarettes in a manner that allows the seller to verify the buyer's age and to collect the state excise tax."

Double benefit

Gov. Pataki lauded the ruling and said the state law "will play a critical role in our aggressive efforts to prevent minors from purchasing cigarettes," as well as pumping revenue into the strapped state coffers.

The ruling means consumers can buy cigarettes only from licensed dealers who sell taxed cigarettes with the familiar stamp at the bottom of each pack.

"It will help the city and state with their budget problems," said Leonard Schwartz, president of the state tobacco wholesalers association, who estimated the state was losing $1.6 billion a year through Internet sales, cigarette smuggling and other untaxed sales.

Eric Proshansky, a lawyer with the city corporation counsel's office, said that while enforcing the ban could be a problem, law enforcement officers would cruise the Internet to make sure cigarette dealers comply with the law.

[metalurgist]

Pennsylvanians)jumping the border

Why would Pennsylvanians go to New Jersey to buy ciggarettes? Name brands sell for $3.35 a pack. Winstons are buy one get one free.

[Doe Eyes]

I expect New Yorkers to go out of state or to Indian reservations to buy their cigarettes.

There's only one way to handle these criminals. I'd say,

"If you would be so kind as to stand up against that wall for a minute.' "Then I'd be shouting 'load, aim, fire'. Personally, I'd shoot."

[qam1]

Why would Pennsylvanians go to New Jersey to buy ciggarettes? Name brands sell for $3.35 a pack. Winstons are buy one get one free.

I thought they just went up recently and are more than that now?

Those Buy one get one free are specials by the tobacco companies themselves and are all over the place, Not anything special to a perticular state.

The point I was making about Mcgreedy was a "What if" scenario. In this case "What if" a liberal had a brain

[Proud2BAmerican]

I noticed that my brand (Camel Lights) are offered on the site, but the graphic shows the light-blue tinted pack...which means they're the "American Blend" that's sold in Europe (which, incidentally, tastes like crap). Ironically, the traditional tan/white colored box that's sold in the states is "Turkish Blend."

I took a trip to Italy a couple years ago, and brought 2 or 3 packs of Camel Lights I had bought in the states. After I finished those on the trip, I bought Camel Lights there in Italy (and discovered the descrepancy), and I couldn't wait to get back to the states for some C-Lights that I was used to...The price on the Web site was about less than half of what I pay at Costco per carton, but still, if they're going to be "American Blend", I dont' know that I could stomach a whole carton of 'em...Haha, maybe it'd be an incentive for me to quit! Always lookin' for more of those...

Do you know of any sites (similar to yessmoke.com) that are operated in the states (so that I would have a better chance of getting the good-tasting kind of C-Lights)?

[cajun-jack]

not really..i don't know anything about the yessmoke.com site...i just read it in another post here one day...only other site i know is www.bigindian.com check them out....they are a deal in NY but here in louisiana a carton of marlboros , tax and all, appr 28.00

[qam1]

Yes, I applaud the good people of Delaware for standing up for their rights.

I wish more of the people of New York City would have stood up instead rolling over but hopefully when the reality of the ban takes hold they will.

[muggs]

Check out
http://store.allnative.com/cgi-bin/AllNative.storefront/3e4ef9a60227c6b4273fc0a80101065e/Catalog/1104

Their brand name cigs are kind of expensive, any where from $18 to $34 a cartoon, depending on which brand you like. The native brands are $11 to $14 a cartoon. The Smokin Joe Natural brand are very good and only cost $11.49. Service is good, usually arrive in 3 business days in good condition. I've ordered from them for over 2 years and ordered 12 cartoons today. Never have a problem with them.

[Gabz]

Interesting - premise. One of which I'm not going to argue with you in regard to NY, because I do remember a bunch of my friends going to county police departments because they couldn't make the cut at NYPD (something my grandfather, father and borther all did on first try)

However, what may be true in NYS is definitely not true in Delaware. In fact it is the complete opposite. I won't say it about all - but there are an awful lot of cops in local departments in this state because they couldn't pass muster to make the State Police.

[Gabz]

I trust you forgot the closing tag of </sarcasm>??????

[Gabz]

...(so that I would have a better chance of getting the good-tasting kind of C-Lights)?

We make our own and my husband smoked C-lights for years - he's found 2 different brands that he finds to be as good if not better - and they cost us less than $8 a carton.

[Gabz]

That's what happened here - no one wanted to listen to me and many called me "chicken little" that it wouldn't happen.

Fortunately some folks have seen the light and the numbers are growing daily. 3 days after the event was officially announced - the establsihment alone has received over 200 inquiries about it. and that doesn't include the emails that have been coming in to the DEUSA site!!!!

[VermiciousKnid]

I have to admit that since I know about a bazillion regular policemen and not a single Statie, I find I cannot dispute what you have said.

One can only hope that they (the Staties) simply find this law simply too onerous to enforce. (I ain't holding my breath, though).

Regards,

[sit-rep]

silly me...

[qam1]

The counties (At least the Long Island ones)are the place the police in New York (at least downstate) want to work. Nassau and Suffolk cops can make $80,000- $100,000 a year.

I really don't know about the counties just North of the city like Westchester,Putnam, Ducthcess, Rockland. I would assume they have their own forces but beyond those I don't know of any other county in the state that has it's own police force. Some of the larger cities and towns may have their own small forces but upstate is pretty sparse so those cities & Towns are few and far between so for the most part most of the state is policed by the troopers.

You gotta think what being a state trooper entails, You got to move sometimes hundreds of miles from your hometown and people that you know to the middle of nowhere where there is not much to do, There is very little crime up here so for the most part all you are going to be doing is handing out traffic tickets, People from Upstate tend to be Xenophobic and they tend to "Want to be left alone" so they are going to hate and resent you so you are not going to make any friends (Forget any chance at getting a girlfriend) so you will be lonely and adding to the isolation the winters up here which is from October to late April are very harsh (NYC & LI are sub tropical paradises compared to up here).

So you can see why someone who wants to be a police officer from the downstate area wouldn't choose being a state trooper as his/her first choice so the only reason why anyone from down there would take it is because they don't have any other options.

So yeah we get all the rejects (Recently I was pulled over by a trooper who I swear couldn't have been more than 5'0 and 100lbs) whose only goals to make names for themselves by handing out lots of tickets so they can get the hell out of here.

So they will relish the chance to boost their standing by making cigarette bust.

On a side note just to show they a'int the brightest bulbs in the box, The dumbest and most annoying thing they like to do often is set up checkpoints for seatbelts on the edge of towns which blocks the entrance in and out. This creates a line of traffic waiting in line for sometimes a couple of minutes which HELLO, Even if the driver didn't have their seatbelt on they would most certainly put it on while they were waiting in line.

[Joe Hadenuf]

You bet, roll your own, for a whole lot less. Don't contribute to the corrupt govt tax confiscation.

[qam1]

That's what happened here - no one wanted to listen to me and many called me "chicken little" that it wouldn't happen.

I believe that happened in New York City also, Many people I talked to from down there never believed it would ever pass and even when it did they belive it will be ignored. Which who knows it just might be like that law they have silly law they have banning danceing in bars.

[VermiciousKnid]

Oh boy, do I know how much NYPD cops want to be Nassau & Suffolk cops. (Hubby is happily employed in Nassau). The academy classes are routinely filled with former NYPD cops -- many of whom have given up sometimes more than 10 years of seniority for the chance at a place in the class. In fact, my husband is one of only a handful of cops at his station that DIDN'T come from NYPD.

BTW...that $80-$100K/year? Doesn't go very far on Long Island. Trust me.

Regards,

[sistergoldenhair]

ping

[Max McGarrity]

The old canard that "Prohibition doesn't work" is as dead as a doornail. It works fine. Ask any DEA agent.

I usually say "ask Al Capone." Guess it doesn't matter anymore, though, since there's no longer a dime's worth of difference.