Smoking Ban Faces Little Protest (???) Boston

Yahoo News ^ | 16 October 2002

[MacDorcha]

i applaud your research and bow before a man with reasoning that the others just didnt seem to grasp. thank you for your input. i will not be as outwardly hateful of smokers, although it does still make me sick to breathe, and i have no clue why people do it at all in the fisrt place. i am no longer in support of such a bill when presented with facts such as this, although its still my right to support whomever i please without the hubub others gave me( which i dont mind as much as the lack of response from all but yourself). you have proven your self to be trusted in a debate to stick to your guns and for that i am thankful. a rarer trait i can't think of. a man who can rationalize his opinions and come out true. i will think twice in the future, but keep your nose to info, lest someone more on the ball than me takes your convitions. the second best thing one can do in a case as we have had is to give when presented the facts. the worst to do is not. the best to do is to be on the full facts in the first place. congrats. keep in touch.

[Max McGarrity]

im sure about it, i tend to give MORE money and spend more time in resteraunts and businesses when im not surrounded by a cancerous cloud.

Then you're a fool. There's no logical reason on earth why everyone cannot be accommodated. You needn't ever enter a place where smoking is going on and smokers would be most pleased to stay away from you and your kind.

less and less people smoke these days anyway,

Percentagewise, yes, but the same number--around 50 million Americans--have smoked for the past forty years or so. That's a lot of people to piss off, not even taking into consideration the FACT that every single smoker has at least one family member or friend who travels with him, who doesn't mind smoke, etc. That's half the population right there.

and even the avid smoker says he should quit. everyone knows its wrong to stuff a rolled up tube of chemicals in your mouth, light it, then inhale... which is why they dont mind when others dont want to breathe smoke

Bullsh... Ask any of the avid smokers here if they "should quit" or if "its wrong." But you're right about one thing: We don't mind when others don't want to breathe smoke. That's why we think they should have their own places and we should have our own places, at the will of the owners of such places, and never the twain shall meet.

that means businesses wont have much of an issue with it NOW just from losing the smokers. on top of that, the non-smokers will like the area more, and come more often, and smokers can still breathe non-smoky air like the rest of us, until they "need" to duck out and (oh God, no!) walk a half a block!

Dream on. Places that have forced owners to go smoker-free have lost many small businesses and many jobs. Most cannot survive a 20-30% drop in business and that's what happens. Instead of believing the anti rhetoric, why don't you ask an actual owner, someone who really knows, someone who has experienced it? Or is your mind made up and you don't want to be confused with the facts?

[ATOMIC_PUNK]

"It'll hurt business originally, but then people will get used to the non-smoking thing.

CASH registers will be going silent soon

Tell me something is it me or is the liberal nazis pulling out all stops this year to ruin this country these types of things are becomming common place and it seems to many people are sitting on their arses and letting it happen

[Max McGarrity]

Uh-oh... SheLion doesn't want your support for her legal rights unless you vigorously agree that smoking is a wonderful thing. Your personal dislike of it is a thoughtcrime, you see.

Slothful, distateful, dishonest, asinine comment, sir, and one that speaks ill of someone who does not deserve it. It's typical anti, tho, so I'd expect no better.

[Max McGarrity]

nice to know you think its a good idea to support somebodies righs to oppress other people, especially the vast majority, just like a liberal would.

Who's being "oppressed" again? I must have missed that part. I keep saying "choice, choice, choice," and don't recall ever once saying "FORCE"!

im actually normal and was brought up like a human living on a planet rich in oxygen that i was meant to breath. carbon dioxide gives me no troubles, just buring cleaning fluids and something about wasting money on useless and even harmful things piss me off in general. the government shouldnt have total control over us by any means, but smokers(a minority that puts the majority and themselves at risk) shouldnt have controll over anyone at all.

Whether or not you're "normal" is debatable, but you certainly are unpleasant. How can smokers put anyone at risk who isn't there by CHOICE? Can you explain that to me?

government is for regulations. its for a slap in the face or a kick in the teeth when we do wrong. smoking, a habit that actually KILLS people whether they chose to smoke or not, is BAD. like it or not, my voice is actually the biggr voice, and its also the voice of the child of an ex-smoker. so stick THAT in your pipe...

Bet you had a miserable childhood too, didn't you? BTW, you might want to read the Constitution a few times until you understand it and government's role in our lives. You didn't by chance graduate recently from an American public school, did you?

[Max McGarrity]

Sheesh.

[Max McGarrity]

From under what foul rock did you crawl? Every asinine statement you posted in this putrid message is wrong!! WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!! And you're an idiot if you believe any of it. You say you're 18 and won a scholarship to college? Un-frickin-believable! You can't spell, your grammar sucks, you can't string a thought together with any clarity, and someone is PAYING for you to go to college??? Sheesh!

[Max McGarrity]

They know the public's attention is elsewhere since 9/11 and you're right, they have been pulling out all the stops. They see "their" extorted money being used to balance state budgets and know if they don't gain enough control to be able to change that, their days are numbered. They don't intend to let that happen.

[MacDorcha]

nice to know you read the rest of the article before opening your yap... dolt

[MacDorcha]

maybe, just maybe, i dont actually care how i present myself to someone who values spelling over logic? that COULD be it.

[MacDorcha]

why dont you try doing as just another joe and i both did, and present actual backing to your statements?

[MacDorcha]

one more thing.

smoke kills your lungs, regardelss of whats in it. it chokes up the aveoli within the lungs and causes oxygen deprevation. im glad to see that regardless of whats presented to you, you persist and dont give in to MD's telling you whats good and whats bad for you. oh, and just another joe, fyi: i would like to clarify my last statements. i now see that your point possesses validity. i dont actually agree with you, but you do make points and you retain logic and dignity. you earned my respect, not my support.

and max... this is about tobacco smoke. from what i read you appear to be on weed... try talking when you aren't.... "stupid" is a good word.

[Just another Joe]

i applaud your research and bow before a man with reasoning that the others just didnt seem to grasp. thank you for your input.

Any time, Mac.
I really try to present my information/research in a manner that explains my position, usually on more than one organization at a time.
Debate/difference of opinion is good.
If flame is what anyone wants though (not speaking of you in particular), I practiced with flamethrowers in the military and can hang with the best.

[Just another Joe]

you earned my respect, not my support.

From our posts to each other, I didn't expect your support. If I made you see that my points can have validity and made you think - That's about all I can hope for between us at this point.

[SheLion]

Tell me something is it me or is the liberal nazis pulling out all stops this year to ruin this country these types of things are becomming common place and it seems to many people are sitting on their arses and letting it happen

I have been following this war on the smoker for a long time. The Tobacco Settlement money, to which the smoker pays 100% through taxes on cigarettes (not Big Tobacco and not Big Government, but the smokers), was supposed to be fed back into the states to educate against smoking and help with any sick smokers on welfare, if there were any.

However, when a state gets a windfall of over $50 million a year they thought they had lost a rich dead uncle!

The state would feed out a little bit for education against smoking but then found out since it wasn't written in stone, they could use this money for everything BUT smoking. In Mass alone, they used this money to build a $70,000 GOLF course! In Maine, they are using the money to fund 5 RACE teams and RACE tracks!!!!

Then, when state budgets across the U.S. were failing, the Governors took the money to balance them. Also, the Democrats, as we all know, have their little pet programs. This money is going for this, as well. But anyone with common sense would see that making 25-30% out of a state to carry the weight isn’t fair or justified. No one likes to pay taxes, but everyone who lives and works in a state needs to help carry the load. Not drop it on one small group. The high taxes on cigarettes has created a lot of resentment, and the smokers are getting even every way they can.

The health coalitions feeding at the honey pot of the MSA talked with lawmakers behind closed doors. They knew that smokers aren't willing to give up their legal habit, so they came up with the idea to raise the taxes really high. But, they did not consider the fact that smoking cheap is our civic duty! A lot of smokers are going to the Net, the Reservations and rolling our own to save money on the outlandish state taxes on cigarettes. And now, the lawmakers are scratching their heads.

They thought smokers were sheep. If they really raised taxes "for the kids," or to make us stop smoking, why did it become such glut and greed? Money!

In other words, smokers are paying for all the control, restrictions and high taxes that are imposed upon us. Not willingly, I might add. But who knew it was going to come to this. The health coalitions, the boards of health, the city councils, the mayors, the Governors all jumped on the “get the smoker” bandwagon. And here we sit. Like we have said so many times before, if smoking is so deadly, why didn’t they just ban it. The Government does a meat recall a lot. Well………how about tobacco? I should shut up before I give them any ideas.

It’s big money! Big business. You have the ones on the left trying to restrict smokers at every turn, leaving a wake of closed doors in it’s path, and you have others on the right trying to get the truth out there. Alcohol went through this back in the 20’s. And we all know that alcohol is a killer. But they pulled out of prohibition and are doing well. I guess tobacco will have to go through the same before we can get back on track, I guess. Pity.

[SheLion]

Bet you had a miserable childhood too, didn't you? BTW, you might want to read the Constitution a few times until you understand it and government's role in our lives. You didn't by chance graduate recently from an American public school, did you?

Thank you, Max. Sure pick up a lot of hate in here. Thanks for the help in fighting the good fight!

[SheLion]

you persist and dont give in to MD's telling you whats good and whats bad for you

Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Causing 250,000 Deaths Every Year. This article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) is the best article I have ever seen written in the published literature documenting the tragedy of the traditional medical paradigm. Doctors Are The Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Causing 250,000 Deaths Every Year

[Just another Joe]

Thank you, Max. Sure pick up a lot of hate in here.

She, I thumped back a little till I got the young lads attention then fed him some facts and figures and made him think.
I don't think we can ever expect his support but maybe he won't be quite so vehement. Especially at the first part of a thread.

[SheLion]

You say you worry about breathing second hand smoke:

The Evidence

Project Title: Environmental Tobacco Smoke Study

(I think any anti who tries to dismiss the findings of the U.S. Department of Energy labs at Oak Ridge, should be confronted with the question: "Are you saying that DOE researchers committed scientific fraud and that their findings on ETS exposure are untrue?"I'd like to see what any anti would say in response to that question. )

You read all the lies about second hand smoke and passive smoke.
Now read the TRUTH! EPA - What was said vs. What is true.

How work can make you sick

You don't smoke? Guess your safe? Think again. Then stop worrying.

Health Alerts

"Is that the cause of chronic problems in smokers? We don't know - now we're into secondhand smoke when we don't even know what firsthand smoke does. I think we're becoming a really, really neurotic, fearful people, and politicians and the media love it and know how to feed that monster."

American Cancer Society Admits "Mistake" in Ad

53,000 deaths from second hand smoke? They made a "typo!"

Cold air and exercise trigger asthma

The key triggers for asthma attacks are cold air, exercise, the menstrual cycle and aspirin, according to a new study.

Asthma: The Politics of Blaming Tobacco Smoke

Fewer people smoke now than ever before, and smoking restrictions and bans have resulted in even less exposure to secondhand smoke. Yet, adult and childhood asthma cases have increased from approximately 6.7 million in 1980 to 17.3 million in 1998, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. [1]

Data Show Exposure to Environmental Tobacco Smoke Down Dramatically and Levels of Blood Lead Continuing to Decline:

National Report on Human Exposure to Environmental Chemicals

Federal Court Rules Against EPA on Second Hand Smoke

Statistics and Data Sciences Group Projects

The Passive Smoke Whopper!

SMOKERS!
Take Back Your Dignity!

This petition will be delivered to President George W. Bush, to Tommy Thompson at DHHS (who spends $3 million a day funding anti-smoker activities), to John Ashcroft (who is crafting another attack on Big Tobacco which will be paid by smokers alone), to the ACLU Lifestyle Discrimination Division, to all Congressmen and Senators, and to the governors of the fifty states. Sign Petition Here

[SheLion]

I am all for a good debate on the smoking issue. But when someone comes in, and just because they hate smokers and smoking, and bash, trash and flame us, I won't put up with it.

They call me dirty, nasty, evil, uneducated, filthy, stinky and low class because I choose to smoke a legal product that has been on the market for over a hundred years.

I won't put up with this. There is no reason for these personal horrible attacks on another human being just because we do not see eye-to-eye on something.

A newbie comes in, states their piece that they hate us, hates smoking, and leaves, so be it. But to sit in here and continually trash us is totally uncalled for.

What is good for them is not good for me and what is good for me is not good for them. That is how the world has always turned. Live and let live. But the ones that come in just to dump on us, have tunnel vision and blinders, their way or no way is not OUR way!

Some of us try to work through reason. I have seen it work. But it takes thousands of typed words to make it happen. It's all good.

On the other hand, most of us know that there are Anti's in here that intentionally come in to flame us and to egg us on. There is NO reasoning with these people. We all know it.

We present them with the truth. If it isn't THEIR truth, it is not true. Ok! I did my preaching to the choir.

Bring on the DEBATE!