Smoke ban goes private/ Clubs group for war with mayor

New York Daily News ^ | 9/24/02 | DAVID SALTONSTALL

[SheLion]

"We have veterans here who made it onto Omaha Beach on D-Day," Fulgoni said. "You going to tell them that they can't smoke?"

It's all about youth.  What about all the "oldies" who have smoked all their lives and are still walking the face of the earth?  What happens to "their" theories then about smoking and second hand smoke?  How come smoking and SHS hasn't killed off all the old folks yet?  Something doesn't pass the smell test with their junk science.

Word of the ban's extension to private clubs has been seeping out slowly, mostly as bar owners have met with city officials to analyze the legislation's fine print.

This is how everyone got into this mess.  The planning document was kept under wraps until the last minute, so no one could fight the ban.  And those that DID know about the pending ban, never thought it could happen to them.  So, they went about their merry way until the day came for the ban, and they discovered that they are also, included.  TOO LATE.

"I knew going in that would happen," said Oddo, one of the bill's chief sponsors. "But you can't argue with the science. The bottom line is that these are all employees who are being subjected to a dangerous situation."

~sigh..........If it is so dangerous, how did any of us live to be as old as we are? I guess all these lawmakers are saying that the Government's own Laboratory committed Scientific FRAUD when they researched the second hand smoke issue, and said it is not a killer.

And I guess they think Judge Osteen of the Federal Court is a fraud as well, since he threw out the EPA's study on second hand smoke.......

Federal Court Rules Against EPA on Secondhand Smoke

Oak Ridge Labs & Second Hand Smoke  

[Great Dane]

We can tolerate a lot of BS as long as it is happening to someone else and not us. I daresay none of these smokers has had trouble tolerating anti-marijuana laws all these years.

Not excactly true, I am very neutral on pot.

[SheLion]

Yes, I CAN argue with the science, that is the whole point.

Oh! But THEY don't think we KNOW about their junk science. They want to keep it swept under a rug, hoping NO one will learn the truth!

This is a Private Property Rights Issue. I don't know why some can't see this. If the Government can go into a private business and dictate how they must run their business, how far from "The Wall" are we at this point?

[SheLion]

According to this article, even Veteran's groups can't get together and smoke in private clubs.

Guess what? The Rich Fat Cats could care LESS about our Veterans!

Fading smoke-free vets clubs eye injunction

Does anyone see what is going on here?

[Publius6961]

BUMP

[SheLion]

Well, they will have to lay them off and possibly rehire those that smoke as labour contributing members.

Friedman wrote his own 18-page report on second hand smoke. Go figure. I guess he thought the Federal Court AND the Government Laboratory committed fraud! He didn't believe it, so he wrote his own report!

[Technoman]

Personally, I cannot stand the smell of smoke. That said, these smoking restrictions are flat out wrong!

I'll tell you what. If any jack-booted lawman went into a tavern right after WWII and ordered a group of veterans to put their smokes, the fascist would not have walked out.

Today's Americans are soft and will put up with any law they want to shove down our throats! That alone is what is breading the police state culture in the law enforcement community!

[VRWC_minion]

Smokers are toast. No one cares about them anymore. If they were more conscious of their smoke maybe they would have more support but unfortunately the debate is over. Its only a matter of time before the only place they can smoke will be their home. (I even expect smoking in the car will be attacked).

[Gabz]

This is how everyone got into this mess. The planning document was kept under wraps until the last minute, so no one could fight the ban. And those that DID know about the pending ban, never thought it could happen to them. So, they went about their merry way until the day came for the ban, and they discovered that they are also, included. TOO LATE.

Very similar to what happened here in Delaware in May. Bars had been exempt all along, but as the House started debating the measure a last minute amendment came in that pulled that exemption. That was on Thursday and the Senate sponsor set a Senate debate date for 3 weeks later. So we started getting the bar owners together. openned Saturday's paper and the enate Pro Tem had announced it was scheduled for Tuesday.

We had 3 days notice - that was it.

at least the Veteran's groups and other fraternal groups (Elks, Moose, etc) are exempt IF they are holding a fund raiser or private function. Memberships in all of these groups has SYROCKETED and the ban doesn't take effect until November.

Additionally, restaurants all over the state are reporting cancellation of bookings for parties during the Holidays, and the lodges and Fire Halls are all seeing record bookings for parties.

[SheLion]

Memberships in all of these groups has SYROCKETED and the ban doesn't take effect until November.

Gabz, membership has gone up?  Is that because of the bans?  Or because the members do not realize what is going on?  Or what is pending in the queue?

Additionally, restaurants all over the state are reporting cancellation of bookings for parties during the Holidays, and the lodges and Fire Halls are all seeing record bookings for parties.

I was going to ask you about this.  Are there really a lot of cancellations for the holidays?

[Great Dane]

As we speak, the legions in Ottawa is being sued for having ashtrays visible to the public............ but wait, we do allow smoking in some places, they are elite private clubs, and private and public golf clubs, got to ask the Mayor what constitutes a private club.

[Gabz]

Membership is going up because of the upcoming bans. The bars in the Fraternal Lodges and Veterans posts are defacto fundraising tools - therefore smoking is permitted in these establishments.

The same is true about the rental of their facilities, and those of the Volunteer Fire Companies. When they rent them out for dinners and parties they are making money for their organizations charitable work or support of the Fire Company - therefore smoking is permitted.

Charitable groups that run Bingo for fundraising purposes were severly hurt by the opening of the slots at the 3 race tracks. Those bingos are permitted to alow smoking, but the slots are not.

How many cancellations there have been, I'm not sure, this is just based on what a couple restaurant owners I know have told me. But the increased booking at the Moose and Elks Lodges is STATEWIDE.

[lavaroise]

Bloomberg is afraid of the great smoker/tobacco industry conspiracy seeking to enslave America. Why doesn't he go after gay groups and pedophilia inner coercive circles? These are terrible for the health of our kids....... Nope a dope, Bloombulb is a moron.

[Just another Joe]

"We have veterans here who made it onto Omaha Beach on D-Day," Fulgoni said. "You going to tell them that they can't smoke?"

Not ME, brother.
I don't want MY butt kicked.

[NYCVirago]

Another reason I regret voting for Michael Bloomberg...

[Oschisms]

Bloomberg is afraid of the great smoker/tobacco industry conspiracy seeking to enslave America. Why doesn't he go after gay groups and pedophilia inner coercive circles?

Have you heard my man speak? With a voice like that, it's hard to believe he has a teenage daughter.

[freeeee]

We have always been free to give our rights away.

You can give your own rights away. Other's rights are not yours to give.

[Huck]

You can give your own rights away. Other's rights are not yours to give.

If only that were true. But it isn't. Others are free to give our rights away, if they have sufficient numbers and go through the process. Sometimes this works out well, such as when by amendment the right of Americans to own human slaves was taken away. Other times it doesn't work out so well. But our system is not built on the principle of unanimous consent. If a majority of Americans want to ban cigarettes, for example, they can do it. You know it's true.

[freeeee]

If a majority of Americans want to ban cigarettes, for example, they can do it. You know it's true.

Sure they can. But that's democracy, not liberty. The two aren't the same.

Democracy is only legitimate when used in pursuit of liberty. It is not an end in itself. When it becomes so, and it has, we are in a condition other than freedom: The Tyranny of the Majority.

[Huck]

Sure they can. But that's democracy, not liberty. The two aren't the same.

It's called republican government. Liberty and government are not the same. We make do the best we can.