[lewislynn]

It takes one hell of a business to survive 5 yrs after a 30% loss of business.

Personally I see MORE business at the bars and especially restaurants

In my town, you'd have to wait at least 20 minutes for a table on a week night and upwards of 45 minutes on the weekend at any decent restaurant.

[tubebender]

overall revenue for California bars and restaurants has grown every year since the law's enactment,

Could this be due to the business raising their prices and not additional customers or could it be that Cal has added 10 million to the population. Unit sales would be the benchmark I believe.

[Drango]

"It's kind of nice, actually," added smoker Susan Schatz.

But, BUT how can this be? Smokers MUST be a victims group. Right up there with all the other oppressed classes.

And YOU lewislin must be a RINO, Nazi, DU, Commie, socialist pig for posting these views from the Sacramento Bee.

[SheLion]

So.......you think smoke bans in private businesses are a GOOD THING?!

Restaurant sales taxes in Tempe tumble in June

Smoking Ban Puts Restaurant Profits Up In Smoke/They Finally Admit It!

California Smokers Use Prohibition Tactics to Get Around Ban

PUB AND BAR COALITION OF ONTARIO /August 2002

Official Figures from Ontario Brewers Confirm Disastrous Effects of Smoking Ban Almost $11.5 million loss in beer sales and tips over 10 months; Ottawa's losses more than three times the rate for rest of the province.
Total impact exceeds $25 million and rising.

NUTSHELL TAVERN, Rte 1, Biddeford, Maine closes its doors due to smoking bans.

Press Herald News, January 6, 2000 * MINGLES COFFEE SHOP, Kitchener, closes after non-smoking bylaw passed--45% drop in business Kitchener-Waterloo Record, July 31, 2000

•  
• * TWELVE RESTAURANTS CLOSE in Brookline, MA , after smoking ban decimates business Lowell Sun, March 28, 2001
•  
• * In British Columbia, 200 WORKERS in 46 establishments have lost their jobs because of the smoking ban National Post, March 3, 2000
•  
• * Hotelier Don Ritaller, Victoria, fired his entire staff of 12
•  
• * J. P. MALONE'S PUB in Richmond, laid off eight of its 20 employees
•  
• * CLYDE'S RESTAURANT GROUP, one of the most popular and successful restaurants chains in the Washington DC area since 1963, suffered a staggering loss of sales after smoking was banned
•  
• * A survey of 300 alcoholic beverage serving operations in California, selected at random from a list of 7,216 shows that 60% experienced a decrease in business averaging more than 30%; 7% showed increased business averaging 8%. Guest Choice Network + 50.4% of the respondents indicated an increase in customer complaints/fights; + 65.0% indicated a loss of regular customers; + 59.0% indicated a loss of tips/gratuities for the bar and/or serving staff.
•  
• * THE DULUTH GRILL has closed after 16 years due to the smoking ban Duluth News
•  
•  * 130 TOBACCONISTS in California have been forced to close since the 1998 smoking bans and punitive tax increases SF Gate, July 1, 2001
•  
• * Thousands of employees have had their hours cut, and hundreds have lost their jobs because of the loss of the smoking customers who form a majority of their customer base.
•  
• " Dread, pink slips greet smoking ban ," Globe and Mail, December 29, 2000
•  
• * A recent study from British Columbia pointed out major economic and job losses after a provincial smoking ban took effect in January: After 80 days of the bylaw, 730 EMPLOYEES were let go , 9 BUSINESSES CLOSED and more than $16 MILLION was lost . The Ottawa Citizen Online, August 27, 2001
•  
• * Letter from a waitress in BC: " My livelihood is being jeopardized for my own protection, and I never asked to be saved ."
•  
• * A hotel-industry study released this week shows that San Francisco's hotel-occupancy rates have shrunk to 1994 levels. City hotels are operating at 74% capacity. Rooms priced at more than $160 are about 69% full. While those numbers aren't disastrous, they are a far cry from the stuffed hostelries we've been used to the last few years. San Francisco Examiner, April 19, 2001
•  
• * TWO MORE RESTAURANTS have closed in Weymouth, MA : J.C. Grear's in South Weymouth and the Aloha in Hingham. A fourth restaurant said business is way off. Weymouth News
•  
• * Corvallis, OR: Employment at the Peacock has dropped from 50 to 14. Owner John Carter says the business has lost 38 percent of its lottery income and more than half of its basic bar revenue since the law took effect State records support Carter's lament about lost business. The Register-Guard, September 24, 2000
•  
• * Clergymen complain that 40 BINGO HALLS have closed because of the smoking ban. These halls supported local charities. Sun-News, February 7, 2001
•  
• * BUD'S PLACE in Cambridge and said his sales have fallen 23 per cent since the smoking ban was implemented. His staff has shrunk to 12 from 17 and a full-time employee he's had on staff for 10 years has been cut back to three shifts a week " Restaurateurs rebel against smoking bans " The New-Standard, December 10, 2000
•  
• * Wareham rescinds smoking ban when restaurant owners prove business decreased 25-40%. "We knew it would hurt," Board of Health Chairman Ralph R. Thompson said of the board's decision to implement the ban, adding that he and his fellow board members weren't aware of just how devastating the ban's impact would prove to be on area businesses. Representatives from Wareham's Elks club said the ban had cut the attendance at their weekly bingo nights in half, crippling their ability to raise funds for scholarships and other civic endeavors . Standard-Times, 12/20/2000
•  
• * In Washington State a smoking ban at the Spokane Interstate Fair went down in flames Monday after attendance dropped by roughly 22% (despite perfect weather) and county commissioners were deluged with calls and letters of protest. "Fair policy up in smoke," Dan Hansen, Spokesman-Review, 9/14/99
•  
• * Susan Barnes of the WATERWORKS RESTAURANT in Rockland ( Maine ) said she has lost more than $8,000 a month in liquor sales to other establishments since the restaurant smoking ban went into effect. Bangor Daily News, February 5, 2000
•  
• * Peter Martin, owner of John Martin's MANOR RESTAURANT AND LOUNGE in Waterville, said he proclaimed all Sundays in January to be no-smoking. Food and beverage sales dropped 25 percent and off-track betting revenue dropped 30 percent , he said Bangor Daily News , February 5, 2000
•  
• ''On Saturday night, we had a band, two bartenders, two waitresses, a doorman, a floor man, and we grossed $33,'' said Dorsey Carey, manager of HANDLEBAR HARRY'S bar/restaurant in Cordage Park, after smoking was banned.. Boston Globe Online, September 9, 2001
•  
• * Owner of the CHATEAU LAFAYETTE, Jill Scott, said: "People can't say this isn't hurting us. I've closed down my kitchen and cut five shifts . I don't know where people are going, but they aren't here." Ottawa Sun, Tuesday, October 2, 2001
•  
• * After smoking bans were implemented, the number of Buffalo BINGO ESTABLISHMENTS dropped by about 20 percent, while city bingo fee revenues declined by 36 percent, according to officials. The Buffalo News, By BRIAN MEYER, News Staff Reporter, 7/24/01
•  
• * Mesa, AZ, banned most restaurant smoking in 1996. THE MARQUEE, the ZUR-KATE and ARIZONA JACK'S are the exceptions. They demonstrated that they lost so much business as a result of the ban that they were allowed to permit smoking. The Washington Post, Monday, February 19, 2001; Page A03
•  
• * The most recent Gallup poll on smoking, November 13-15, shows that even in the current climate more than half of Americans, 53%, still want to allow smoking sections in restaurants; a solid majority still favors the preservation of smoking areas in the workplace, 63%, as well as in hotels and motels, 72%. "...it really comes down to whether or not we have a right to tell private business owners what they can do in their own business." Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, The Cabin, September 6, 2001

  The List goes on and on...........

[supercat]

The economic impact of the ban has been widely debated. While some individual tavern owners claim business has dropped as much as 30 percent since the ban took effect, overall revenue for California bars and restaurants has grown every year since the law's enactment, according to figures from the State Board of Equalization.

It would be nice to have some real numbers here. If business went down 30% and has since risen 1%/year, the fact that it's rising would not change the fact that the ban seriously hurt business.

What's really discouraging here is that so many people seem so unwilling to recognize that markets act as mini-democracies: if a business allows smoking, that's a pretty good sign that more customers specifically want to allow smoking than customers who want to forbid it. What the smoking nazis seek to do is forbid businesses from giving their customers what they want.

If a 10% of the prospective diners in a community refuse to eat at a restaurant that allows smoking, and 20% refuse to eat at one that does not, then (assuming diners represent market share commensurate with their numbers) if the community has at least 10 restaurants, there will be at least one that forbids smoking and at least one that allows it [if the anti-smoking zealots don't interfere]. The remaining restaurants could split in any ratio, but will probably roughly mirror the 2:1 margin of customers who base their dining decisions the issue.

One key to understanding market behavior on these issues, btw, is recognizing that if any group which represents a large market share is being under-served, one or more businesses in the field will stand to benefit by serving that group, even if it means the loss of some or all of its existing customers. For example, suppose there were 11 restaurants, none of which totally forbade smoking. At least one of those restaurants must have a sub-10% market share. If that restaurant is the only one to forbid smoking, it would stand to win an instant 10% market share from people who want a smoke-free restaurant. Since its current market share is less than 10%, winning the 10% share from smokers would be a benefit, even if it cost some or all of the existing customer.

Of course, this is a slight over-simplification; businesses may legitimately value on long-time customers more than new ones. On the other hand, very seldom will a business stand to lose its entire clientele as a result of catering to an untapped market segment. Thus, while the principle that market niches don't go unfilled doesn't hold true 100% of the time, businesses will 99.44% of the time act to serve untapped markets if the government lets them.

[Gabz]

Your town is obviously a rare occurance.

I live in a state capitol and without fail always have to wait for a seat in the smoking section. And it matters not what time of the year it is.

[SheLion]

The unfree society of Michael Bloomberg

No Fun In New York

[Just another Joe]

And it's STILL not about health.
It's about the personal property rights of the business OWNER.

The slippery slide, the downhill slide, the boiling frog, whatever you want to call it, it's taking away personal property rights.
Once you give them away for one thing you take the BIG risk of giving them away for everything.

[Great Dane]

In my town, you'd have to wait at least 20 minutes for a table on a week night and upwards of 45 minutes on the weekend at any decent restaurant.

Funny, thats what our fanatics claimed, until someone invited a few Councillors to go bar and restaurant hopping with them, Councillors response....... we had no idea of the devastation caused by this ban.

[Max McGarrity]

Ah, yes, more hype and bs about how GOOD smoking bans are for business. Tell me, lewislynn, WHY is Mayor Brown crying about how empty the hotels are in SF, why is he sending out discount coupons to other cities' officials trying to drum up business?

Five years after the ban, smokers have made other arrangements. The fact that tax receipts are up has more to do with the number of new "citizens" here along with more national chains than anything else. But you knew that, didn't you?