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U.S. quietly OKs fetal stem cell work - Bush allows funding despite federal limits on embryo use
Chicago Tribune ^ | July 7, 2002 | By Jeremy Manier

Posted on 07/07/2002 11:24:26 AM PDT by Keyes For President

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:44 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Jhoffa_
Please don't forget that abortion is a GOP policy. All this hue and cry over what "the Democrats" or "Bill Clinton" did is a sick joke perpetrated on good people who've placed their faith in the "Personally opposed, BUT ..." party as somehow "pro-life". They are not.

(Anyone who watched former President Bush and Bob Dole stand up to preserve Clinton through impeachment (so the Mad Bomber of Sudan could hand them back a smoking Balkan baton) knows better.)

I'll be bombing this thread from the fetal tissue angle. If you dig into some of the middle-of-the-night notes I was posting to myself in this thread -- "Abortion is VITAL to the solution" ... A Key Point from Kissinger's NSSM-200 -- you can see that the GOP Congress had no trouble revisiting the '93 Gag Rule in 2000 but specifically sidestepped the fetal tissue question.

Perhaps it was an idea whose time finally had come ... after a false start back in 1992 as George H. Bush attempt to tie up a few loose ends. To wit:


12806 Establishment of a Fetal Tissue Bank 
 Signed: May 19, 1992 
 Federal Register page and date: 57 FR 21589; May 21, 1992 
 Revoked by: Pub.L. 103-43 (107 Stat. 133) 

21 posted on 07/07/2002 12:39:45 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Mudboy Slim
Not by a long shot...MUD

Actually, this is worse.

No one ever thought to manufacture Jews for the purpose of killing them. We're headed that way.

22 posted on 07/07/2002 12:40:39 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Mudboy Slim
Personhood doesn't begin at conception then to you? Biology disagrees.

Reductionist victories into the mindset of west thought are scary as hell.

23 posted on 07/07/2002 12:40:46 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: JMJ333
west-western
24 posted on 07/07/2002 12:42:11 PM PDT by JMJ333
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To: Jhoffa_
If you believe the story, which considering the source is
questionable.
25 posted on 07/07/2002 12:43:12 PM PDT by wingnuts'nbolts
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To: Jhoffa_
My question exactly. I wonder how the bushbots feel about THIS one? I thought he'd drawn a line in the sand over this!
26 posted on 07/07/2002 12:54:14 PM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: dcwusmc

Me also.

The Bot's are taking the position that he hates it, BUT nothing can be done. The funding is there.

Now Askel says something quite different.. Look to her post to me above.

And there are like a million, billion links in there and someplace in all that mess it is implied that Congress intentionally dropped the ball on this. I don't know where because it't all links to links and I am soon running out of computer time for today.

(Gonna have a BBQ.. Yum!)

27 posted on 07/07/2002 1:01:22 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: Satadru; Askel5
Maybe you can explain it to me, but I don't understand this situation. If the President cannot withhold funding for stem-cell research, then why was there such a brouhaha over Bush's speech over an year ago about using the already aborted fetal stem line. If the President could not withhold funding, then why was his situation such a big deal? Someone please explain how this works.

It can be explained like this. In 1993 with a demo controlled Congress and Presidency, they passed a law signed by Clinton which forbade any President from withholding funding.

That is what you get from a demo Congress.

Of course, Ms. Askel in her penultimate spite decided to "muddy the waters" with the help of her "friends" at the the NYT and WP.

I wouldn't expect an answer from Ms. Askel, she is to busy posting over at LF(Lunatic Fringe), the penultimate right wing malcontent mutual admiration society.

28 posted on 07/07/2002 1:03:42 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Jhoffa_
Askel does have the right of it on this issue as far as I can see, though the bots will sure not like THAT... His was a major speach on just that issue... but now with no notice he lets it slip thru.

For me, I can see the usefulness of such research, but I cannot condone killing the pre-born to conduct it! I have heard that there are adult stem-cells that could work even better.... why is it that we must have fetal cells, then? Maybe it IS part of the pubbiecrat agenda so that they can keep abortion as a FedGov issue instead of putting it back to the States, where it would be feasible to get it outlawed on a state by state basis.

Enjoy your BBQ. I am going to Marine World with the wife when she gets off work at 1800 local time.
29 posted on 07/07/2002 1:09:31 PM PDT by dcwusmc
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To: Jhoffa_
#27....You know, I hope the BushBots*****I'M A BUSHBOT!***** will stay away from this thread.....

....Don't even come here...........

We'll take our pride in, respect of and appreciation of our President to other threads.

Whatever we could/would say in defense would fall on deaf ears.

30 posted on 07/07/2002 1:10:29 PM PDT by Guenevere
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To: dcwusmc
For me, I can see the usefulness of such research, but I cannot condone killing the pre-born to conduct it! I have heard that there are adult stem-cells that could work even better.... why is it that we must have fetal cells, then? Maybe it IS part of the pubbiecrat agenda so that they can keep abortion as a FedGov issue instead of putting it back to the States, where it would be feasible to get it outlawed on a state by state basis.

Enjoy your BBQ. I am going to Marine World with the wife when she gets off work at 1800 local time

Huh, no mention of the 1993 demo passed law.

How convienent.

Oh well go ahead, live in your revisionist world. It suits you well.

31 posted on 07/07/2002 1:12:40 PM PDT by Dane
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To: Dane
No ... abortion as linchpin of U.S. population control policy is what you get from Republicans. Get it straight.

Argue the facts for change, why don't you?

Just because Democrats are stupid enough to view offing their own and the use of the unborn as mulch for "the living" as the ultimate empowerment doesn't change the FACT all of these "rights" rest on the Legal Abortion republicans recognize as "vital" to the solution of population control.

32 posted on 07/07/2002 1:12:56 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Jhoffa_; Dane
Must take off for a bit myself but will be back to finish fleshing out a post that may help Dane with the facts at issue.

In the meantime, perhaps he can go study up on NSSM-200 and NSDM-314 as linked above.

33 posted on 07/07/2002 1:14:45 PM PDT by Askel5
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To: Dane
It can be explained like this. In 1993 with a demo controlled Congress and Presidency, they passed a law signed by Clinton which forbade any President from withholding funding.

All I want is some sourcing or press on this legislation, and whether it has since been resisted or can be circumvented. I would hope that pro-life forces could work with the White House and the better part of the GOP ... and some pro-life Democrats ... in this matter.

Any info is appreciated,

Cheers,

Richard F.

34 posted on 07/07/2002 1:14:49 PM PDT by rdf
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To: dcwusmc

That's my understanding also from what she's posted. That the stem cell research thing is just more hooks into "right" to an abortion. Some interesting stuff from Henry (frog voice) Kissenger also.

To me this hinges on Congress dropping this intentionally, but I haven't found that in so many words yet and our Congress has been in a state of flux to some degree.

Have fun at Marine world!

35 posted on 07/07/2002 1:16:26 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: Guenevere
Look, this is reactionary drivel.

I didn't "bash" Dubya over this (yet) and I am looking this over (or trying to) in an effort to determine if a "bash" is deserved in this case.

Now, that's as fair as a person can be in my opinion.

So knock it off already.

36 posted on 07/07/2002 1:19:59 PM PDT by Jhoffa_
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To: Dane
It can be explained like this. In 1993 with a demo controlled Congress and Presidency, they passed a law signed by Clinton which forbade any President from withholding funding.

What happened to Executive Privilege?

Can he do that?

Would he?

37 posted on 07/07/2002 1:20:11 PM PDT by carenot
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To: Askel5
Argue the facts for change, why don't you?

Huh the fact that a demo controlled Congress(1993) passed a law that forbade a President from witholding funding and that a demo President signed it is an arguement of fact.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it is.

Oh that's right your bubble is never burst over at LF(Lunatic Fringe). I can understand your outrage over the little peons at FR who dare to challenge you.

38 posted on 07/07/2002 1:20:39 PM PDT by Dane
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To: alnick
White House officials said Bush left the Clinton guidelines for fetal-derived cells in place because Congress passed a law in 1993 that made it illegal for presidents to ban funding for such research.

As if such funding is some constitutional right. This dope had some really misplaced priorities. Thats what affluence does to the mind I guess. Clinton should have had more respect for the constitution as it is in its present form I think

39 posted on 07/07/2002 1:24:48 PM PDT by virgil
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To: rwfromkansas
I would suggest you read the article more clearly, but you have an agenda so you won't read something if it exposes you as a liar.

Who are you calling a liar??? I read the article. I did not post any comments about the article. I posted the first paragraph and a link to the full article as per FR rules.

You are the one who appears to have an agenda. Who are you to call me a liar?

40 posted on 07/07/2002 1:27:34 PM PDT by Keyes For President
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