Posted on 03/19/2002 1:49:07 AM PST by Sabertooth
You sound like a liberal race-baiter. You're trying to shut down rational debate by making ugly accusations about people's motives.
There are a number of points at which to refute your analogy, anyway. Andy Grove came here at a time of very low immigration. This debate is about the very high level of immigration we have today. Andy Grove did not come here on as a skilled, high-tech worker on an H1-B visa, doing high skilled work for lower wages than equivalent American workers. He came here as a young man, was educated here, and built a business here. How well do you know Andy Grove's story? Inform yourself: http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/grove/bio2.htm
And it's not, it was directed at about 200,000 people to reunite families"
Ah, well, the intents or directions of laws are frequently quite different from their actual effects.
EBUCK
Would you have said no to Andy Grove(founder of Intel) when he was escaping Communist Hungary.
He was penniless, uneducated, and nearly deaf. He fits your description of an "undersirable" that you list in reply #78.
The effects of failing to control the border will serve as the excuses given for issuing national ID. 9/11 in part was a failure to control the border -- and now we have the Orwellian "Patriot" act.
You can either have a secure border or you can have a police state. Pick one.
You know, on review I'm going to amend my statement at #52 somewhat...
There are two million Illegals in the greater L.A. Area (which would also include Orange County and a few others), not in L.A. County alone.
I don't have the specific links handy, the figures are off the top of my head from things I've read that I found persuasive. But I'll try and find them for you.
In any case, the math is pretty straightforward... California has about 35 million people, and 4 million Illegals. That's about 11%. Most of the Illeglas are in SoCal, and the Greater Los Angeles Area has nearly 20 million people. 11% (a low figure for our area, but the State average) of 20 million is going to give you a figure of about 2 million Illegals.
The number for my county would be closer to a million, using those figures.
Nevertheless, I did misspeak, and I appreciate your calling that error to my attention. My apologies.
Right on target!
It's a euphemism for "entered legally."
Proof? Read the legislation and the pertinent INS definitions of those who fall under Section 245(i). They're Illegals.
Legal foreign nationals fall under Section 245.
The Kosovo Serbs also used to enjoy the cheap Albanian labor and went for "open borders".
Look where that got them.
AND, what are you going to do about the Canadian border, which is 3 times the length and covers vast stretches of wilderness? What about the coastlines?
Apologies for the busted links to the HR 1885 legislation. Apparently the links provided by a search on that Federal Gov site go stale after a while, but you can find the links I was trying to make by doing the following...
First, click HERE.
Enter HR 1885 in the bill number search field, and click search. Then click on option #1. On the next page you'll see an outline for the entire 1885 legislation. For the 245(i) mods, scroll down to Sec. 607 at the bottom, and click.
Hope that helps.
(Washington, D.C.) In a bold move, following a stirring floor speech by Sen Robert Byrd (D-WV), Democrats have declared that ice is freezing cold. In response, congressional Republicans, led by Dick Armey (R-TX), held a press conference voicing their opposition. Armey is quoted as saying, "If the Democrats say ice is cold, you know it's got to be hot and that's where I'll make my stand. We're not gonna let'em get away with this." Senate Minority Leader, Trent Lott, was less strident in his position. He said that ice was not nearly as cold as Byrd claims, but he'd be willing to work on a compromise measure with fellow senators.
Sometimes, the D vs. R stuff is just too funny.
Huh I am not the one who is praising grand wizard pork barrel non-impeacher Senator Byrd(Democrat), who is holding up needed reform in the INS and other border security issues.
My concern is the "slippery slope" thing; any opening in the immigration laws and it just gets worse. The country has enough people; what has to happen now is that those who are already citizens have to learn the language and become part of communities with interests beyond their own ethnic group.
The problem is that there are some issues on which the two main elements of the Repbulican party do not agree, and this is one of them. Pro-business conservatives want the cheap labor and consumer consumption immigrants provide. Social conservatives want to preserve the language, culture, and values of the US, and not have the foreign competition for jobs. It's not about fear-mongering; it's about values.
There are valid points to both sides of the arguments here, but it is not a black/white matter. There are gray areas we must also cover.
If these people have not committed a crime, are working and only trying to make a better life for their families, what's the problem? On the other hand, if they are out there collecting money for not doing anything, or if they are terrorists, then I can see the point.
I think we all need to remember that we got here on a boat, train or other means of transportation also.
Again, you're changing your tune with each post, each time throwing out an inflammatory attack or inaccurate analogy. Byrd has little to with this, and his name was only brought up by quimby(post #4) in the absence of anything better to say, apparently. Sure, Byrd gave a speech yesterday saying he was against 245(i) at this time. Sure, Byrd is a porkmaster and was already holding up the (good) border security bill before this 245(i) fiasco appeared. Are we all automatically wrong now?
Do you have any reasoned statement to make in favor of 245(i), or unsecured borders, or mass immigration, or having more than 10 million unauthorized foreign nationals in the US, or the other factual issues raised in this thread?
"Special rules under section 245(i) may allow you to apply to adjust status without leaving the United States."
Do you see anywhere in there where it says YOU WILL BE AUTOMATICALLY GRANTED A GREEN CARD????? I DON'T.
Heck the secure feeling of having both a fenced border and a police state examining all peoples papers can only assure everyone that only legal people are here. You never know who that person next you maybe... legal or illegal. Who knows how quickly the chip implants will be available now. Here, let me scan your arm to see if you are in our data base.... Yep I feel so much more secure now. Maybe Byrd will sign on.
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