Ergun Caner: Islam is not a Peaceful Religion {Former Muslim}

CBNnews.com ^ | March 7 2002 | Ergun Caner

[iav2]

Ergun Caner: Islam is not a Peaceful Religion

Ergun is the oldest son of a Muslim mwazien. The mwazien is similar to a preacher. In 1982 when he was 16 years old, he attended a revival service in Columbus, Ohio, at the invitation of a high school friend and accepted Christ. Ergun started attending church on Monday, accepted Christ on a Thursday -- and had his first piece of ham at a Youth Afterglow activity days later.

When Ergun attended the mosque the next day, his youth group of Shiite Muslims "beat the tar out of me," he says. Ergun's parents were separated at the time (prior to a divorce), and when his father found out about his salvation, he confronted Ergun. When Ergun refused to repudiate his faith in Christ, his father disowned him -- by facing Mecca and praying a prayer of abandonment because it was embarrassing that his oldest son would accept Christ. Sadly this effectively ended their relationship. Ergun didn't see his father for 17 years, until three days before his dad's death in 1999.

Ergun's Swedish mother met and married a Turkish man . They relocated to the U.S .where the younger brothers were born. Ergun says he was called to preach one year after salvation (he began college at 16), becoming a pastor at age 17 to a small country church in Manchester, Kentucky.

He says it was a mystery to him that God would call him because at the time, Ergun didn't speak English very well and didn't fully understand the Scriptures. He felt that he was all alone because neither his mother, nor his grandmother, were Christians. But he gladly accepted the call, and led his brothers to Christ the same week of his salvation.

Islam Is Not A Peaceful Religion

As the son of a mwazein, Ergun had to learn the hadith (the sayings and traditions of Muhammed, the Prophet of Islam) in the Qur'an. In these teachings, Ergun says the central thesis of Islam does in fact have an essential tenet of militaristic conquest at its heart. The infidel, or unbeliever, must be converted or conquered. If the Muslim dies in such a struggle or declaration of war (jihad), he is promised immediate translation into the highest level of paradise. Therefore, when pressed most Muslims would say that Mohamed Ata is in heaven according to the Qur'anic teaching.

The Qur'an, supposedly from the mouth of Allah, takes a dim view of the non-believer and a strict view of jihad as a warfare against them. In Surah 2:190, Allah says, "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you. And slay them wherever you catch them." Physical warfare is an absolute necessity so that Allah is honored and worshipped. Jihad is one of the highest calls of life for a Muslim. "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and those who strive hard and fight in the cause of Allah with their wealth and lives." Surah 4.95

According to the doctrine of jihad there are three waves of jihad. The first wave is the shock -- which was Sept 11.

The second wave is to show a people that they are vulnerable. It has to be public. "Daniel Pearl was killed on videotape," says Ergun. There is no question that group who killed Pearl is a subgroup of the radical Muslim fundamental group, Mujahdeen.

The third wave is to humiliate your enemy, to "cut the legs out from under them." "Thank God President Bush responded as he did," Ergun says. "If he had not, the second wave would have been much, much worse than the first." The Koran teaches that if your enemy is weak -- conquer him. If he is strong -- respect him. That means they keep going until they meet with resistance.

When asked if he believes Osama bin Laden is still alive, Ergun says yes. "He is considered to be a martyr in their faith. If he were dead, they would be hailing him." Peace With Allah, Not Us

"I must take this opportunity to side with Pat," says Ergun. "He cannot take these hits (from the media and press) alone." Ergun says the word "Islam" means "peace with Allah" not "peace with us." "We are the infidels and therefore the enemy," says Ergun.

He further explains that when a Christian blows up an abortion clinic, he does that in spite of the teachings of Jesus Christ. "Muslims perform jihad because of the teachings of Muhammed," declares Ergun. "Make no mistake, they are at war with us and these are not just radical Muslims."

Osama bin Laden is a Sunni Muslim, not a Shiite, which is considered the more radical of the two. When bin Laden is on television, he is quoting the Qur'an. "It is difficult to take the Qur'an out of context," says Ergun. Even to the casual reader, jihad is more than just an intellectual exercise of struggle, but rather an engagement in battle and struggle and warfare with death as a conclusion for the Muslim blessing.

Muhammad echoed this conclusion in Hadith 4.73 "Muhammed said, "Know that paradise is under the shades of the sword." For the Muslim apologists who redact the terminology to indicate that fighting is perhaps an intellectual debate must read Surah 2:216, "Fighting is prescribed for you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows and you know not." It is impossible to determine that the text means anything but fighting in the traditional sense of combat.

A Muslim is a Muslim by birth, but many are illiterate. Therefore they must take the word of the imam, equivalent to a pastor, as truth. They cannot question the validity of what the imam says. With reference to the recent Gallup poll, "they hate us," says Ergun. "And they cannot make the distinction between an American and a Christian because of the way they are brought up culturally. When you say a man is a Turk, it is understood that he is Muslim."

Ergun believes that the United States did not finish the job in the Gulf War. He believes that we will not end the war on terrorism without including Saddam Hussein, who is the major fundraiser for Islam. "If we do not go after him, this will never end," he says. "He will continue the jihad."

Incredible Opportunity

But in the midst of this turmoil, Ergun says this is the most incredible opportunity to witness to Muslims. They are beginning to understand their religion. Many do not want to be part of the violence and are coming to Christ. The difference between reaching them and not reaching them depends on the teaching of grace.

"The single most important thing to do is teach on grace," he says. To Muslims, the intimacy of God is so new. Teach them that they don't have to live in fear of the "scales of Allah," which are seen as actual scales (2 Surah 4). For the Muslims who fear the scales that measure their eternal damnation if weighted heavier for evil than good, this is the only true eternal security they have.

Christians should also know that Allah and God are not the same. "No serious or intellectual Muslim would say that Allah has a Son, that He is a Triune, nor that He is personal," Ergun says. Allah is Creator and Judge. Christ's attributes are so totally different. He is loving, kind, gracious, and forgiving. As a Christian, Ergun is offended when he hears people say that God and Allah are the same. Many think getting to God is like getting to Chicago. You can get there by plane, train or auto. It doesn't matter what path you take, as long as you get there. Ergun calls this the "Oprahization" of American culture.

On October 19, 2001, Ergun spoke before the UN at the Subcommittee on Cultural Affairs. As an expert on Islam and one who speaks Arabic, he is being invited to participate in even more high-level projects on this area. There are only 20 former Muslims who are now preachers in America; there are only eight (and Ergun is one of them) who are professors of theology.

[FITZ]

The Conquistadors and the Crusaders certainly killed hundreds of thousands if not millions combined...

It's no accident that they came out of a country that had been very heavily influenced by Islam after 700 years of it.

[MarMema]

"These examples illustrate the extent to which Christians in the Middle Ages were exposed to the events, characters, and teachings of the Bible, even when few of them could read it. In both worship and daily life, events from the life of Christ and other biblical scenes were present in sculpture, mosaic, and stained glass, in books, in drama, and in architecture."

"These works of art show why historian Henri Daniel-Rops claimed that the first and most fundamental characteristic of medieval religion was the influence of Holy Scripture."

From here

The Byzantines used icons to tell stories from the Bible. In our church we worship as the Byzantines did and still use icons to tell the stories.

[OWK]

Me: The Conquistadors and the Crusaders certainly killed hundreds of thousands if not millions combined...

You: It's no accident that they came out of a country that had been very heavily influenced by Islam after 700 years of it.

Congratulations. You have been nominated for the nonsensical rationalization of the year award.

[FITZ]

What Catholic country that wasn't Islamic for 700 years had Conquistadors?

[SunnyUsa]

excellent find!!!

"Christians should also know that Allah and God are not the same. "No serious or intellectual Muslim would say that Allah has a Son, that He is a Triune, nor that He is personal," Ergun says.
Allah is Creator and Judge.
Christ's attributes are so totally different.
He is loving, kind, gracious, and forgiving.
As a Christian, Ergun is offended when he hears people say that God and Allah are the same."

The more we know, the better equipped to fight this enemy.

[FITZ]

That's all that "Black Legend" propaganda you believe anyhow. It's okay to demonize anything Spanish but the Muslims are wonderful people.

[MarMema]

Byzantium the Forgotten Empire

The Empire of Byzantium was the eastern portion of the Roman Empire, which was divided in 395 A.D. Its capital of Constantinople, located on a peninsula, was naturally secure from invasion on three sides, and its fourth side was fortified with a network of three walls that withstood direct attack for over a thousand years. Its stable economy provided a strong military and, together with an abundant food supply and advanced civil engineering, a high standard of living. Christianity was firmly entrenched in Byzantium, and literacy was more widespread than in any other nation in the middle ages. Although the predominant language was Greek, Latin was also fairly common, and at one point all seventy-two of the world's known languages were represented in Constantinople. Intellectual and artistic endeavors thrived.

Its rich historiographical tradition (strongly influenced by the church) preserved ancient knowledge upon which splendid art, architecture, literature and technological achievements were built. It is not an altogether unfounded assumption that the Renaissance could not have flourished were it not for the groundwork laid in Byzantium.

[MarMema]

The Church of Hagia Sophia, associated with one of the greatest creative ages of man (Byzantium), was also the Cathedral of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople for more than one thousand years. Originally known as the Great Church, because of its large size in comparison with the other churches of the then Christian World, it was later given the name of Hagia Sophia, the Holy Wisdom of Christ.

Nothing like it was ever built before or after. Construction work lasted five years [532-537] and on December 27, 537, Patriarch Menas consecrated the magnificent church.

"Written sources refer to "the number of clerics appointed to the service of the most holy Great Church of Constantinople. " The records list a total of 600 persons assigned to serve in Hagia Sophia: 80 priests, 150 deacons, 40 deaconesses, 60 subdeacons, 160 readers, 25 chanters, 75 doorkeepers. Another source reveals the extent of destruction and pillage which Constantinople suffered in the hands of the Catholic Crusaders after 1204 and the difficulties that the great church had to face from the 13th century onwards. Paspatis writes: "In 1396, during the patriarchy of Callistus II, a note was made in the second volume of patriarchal documents [Millosich-Muller] listing all the existing gold and silver sacred vessels, hieratic vestments, crosses, gospel-books and holy relics. The destitution of the celebrated church, looted by the Latin Crusaders became evident. I mention the most important objects, from which pillagers removed pearls and other ornaments of gold in later times.

The church had: nine gospel-books, two of which remained in the church for the use of the priests, while the other seven much adorned the representations of embossed gold, were kept in the Skeuophylakion; five craters ...fourteen patens and chalices; six lavides [spoons]; six silver asterisks; four candelabra by the entrance; sixteen ripidia [fans]; eight crosses containing splinters of the True Cross and adorned with gold, silver and pearls; four aer [large veils]; twenty-six chalice veils and four patriarachal staffs; also a few icons, hieratic vestments and some relics of saints that had escaped the rapacious Crusaders...

[OWK]

What Catholic country that wasn't Islamic for 700 years had Conquistadors?

Did the crusaders Muslim occupied countries? Hell no.

And are you honestly attempting to blame Islam for the attrocities of the inquisition and the conquistadors?

C'mon... that's utterly silly.

Why not simply accept the fact that some horrible things were done by some evil men, claiming to represent Christianity? (while obviously disregarding the teachings of Christ)

It would do wonders for your credibility.

[OWK]

correction: Did the crusaders come from Muslim occupied countries?

[MarMema]

What Muslims do is demand tolerance until they achieve some means to be even more intolerant than they already are

Well said.

[OWK]

What Muslims do is demand tolerance until they achieve some means to be even more intolerant than they already are.

What ignorant emotional people do, is assume that all Muslims, or all Christians, are the same.

[MarMema]

I am attempting to help others understand that the communistic atheist butchers of the 20th century, and the theologically oriented butchers of the middle ages didn't share a faith... but they shared one common trait which allowed them to brutalize their fellow men in unspeakable ways. They shared a fundamental disregard for the rights of their fellow men.

Was this your quote, OWK? I think you have a good point here. Perhaps I would add to it the desire for power.

[MarMema]

What ignorant emotional people do, is assume that all Muslims, or all Christians, are the same

But you do have to admit that world-wide, there is an awful lot of muslim terrorism taking place right now. To what do you attribute this? And how do you feel about these people's apparent love for making videos of torture and execution, and for showing those videos to children and in their places of worship? At some point you must be able to condemn these kinds of practises as immoral and wrong.

[MarMema]

All Christians should be the same. We should bless our enemies and be thankful for persecution.

[Joe Driscoll]

I am curious about the removed comments. In his spare time(ya, right) I wonder if JohnRob can build a function. It would count the removed comments by recipient. I think you have a shot at the title.

You do get people thinking. Now, if you just get them to use the logical half instead of the emotional half...

[WisdomBank]

Here's an important distinction between Muslims & Christians - both of whom are willing to DIE for their faith:
Muslims are willing to KILL for their faith.
Christians are willing to BE KILLED for their faith.

[OWK]

But you do have to admit that world-wide, there is an awful lot of muslim terrorism taking place right now.

Of course there is. And it is markedly evil.

To what do you attribute this?

Despair, abuse, political meddling, and an interventionist foreign policy on the part of the United States all play a part.... But even with all of these things, Islamic Fundamentalist extremism in general bears the majority of the blame. But not all Muslim are fundamentalist extremists, just as not all Christians are Fred Phelps.

And how do you feel about these people's apparent love for making videos of torture and execution, and for showing those videos to children and in their places of worship? At some point you must be able to condemn these kinds of practises as immoral and wrong.

Again you say "these people" as if one Muslims actions are attributable to all Muslims.

Do you as a Christian want to be held accountable for the actions of Fred Phelps?

If not, then why hold all Muslims' accountable for the actions of the violent fundamentalist extremists?

[OWK]

I am curious about the removed comments.

You didn't miss much. Just somebody calling me vulgar names. Nothing new about that.

In his spare time(ya, right) I wonder if JohnRob can build a function. It would count the removed comments by recipient. I think you have a shot at the title.

I'm sure I'd be in the running. ;^]

You do get people thinking. Now, if you just get them to use the logical half instead of the emotional half...

Some do... and that makes the effort worthwhile.

[MarMema]

Nope those durn crusaders came from the Pope, though they say he was none too happy about it. They were supposed to be going to sack Palestine.

Their ruin of Constantinople - "As the Byzantines watched the Crusaders tear to pieces the alter and icon screen of the Church of the Holy Wisdom, and set prostitutes on he Patriarch's throne, they must have felt that those who did such things were not Christians in the same sense as themselves.. The Crusaders did not bring peace, but a sword, and the sword was to sever Christendom to this day" is one reason we have a great degree of suspicion about the Pope even now.

And then, after they sacked us, they were unable to hold the city against the Turks. And those Turks darn near completely wiped out Christianity.

"But the greatest prize of all were the relics. bones, heads and arms of saints. the crown of thorns, St. Thomas, the doubter's finger. The patriarch fled on an ass without a single attendant. Tombs were robbed. Women were outraged. Churches were desecrated. Horses were ridden in the sanctuary. Communion cups and sacred vessels were used as drinking cups in drunken revels. Prostitutes danced on the altar. Icons, even portraits of Christ were used as gaming tables."

Those particular crusaders were, ahem, not so Christian.

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