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Man shot in face by FBI in serious condition
Baltimore Sun ^ | March 3, 2002 | Kimberly A.C. Wilson

Posted on 03/03/2002 4:00:57 AM PST by Donald Stone

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:50:01 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: arm958
The "reason" given for this policy is "because badguys will NOT take you seriously if your finger is NOT on the trigger." The English translation of which is: The badguys will disrespect you, (a capital offense, if I ever heard one) if you demonstrate a prudent concern for their lives.

I know that this is absurd and you know that this is absurd. I wonder what the Jury will say?

About $20 Million, I would say.

21 posted on 03/03/2002 5:38:15 AM PST by Agent Smith
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To: Donald Stone
The agent probably had his finger on the trigger 'Elian raid' style which is something you aren't supposed to do.
22 posted on 03/03/2002 5:39:07 AM PST by Dialup Llama
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To: Alas
It is time for congress to eliminate this out of control bunch of murdering slim along with their ilk in the batf.

At the very least, Bush MUST remove the residual cadre of Clinton appointees in the Justice Dept. His failure will be a big problem in '04.

23 posted on 03/03/2002 5:40:29 AM PST by bimbo
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To: Donald Stone
and Another "Right Wing Wacko" is born.
24 posted on 03/03/2002 5:47:27 AM PST by Maelstrom
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To: Donald Stone
Totally off the subject but who lets their 16 year old daughter date a 20 year old?
25 posted on 03/03/2002 5:48:12 AM PST by Straight Vermonter
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To: bimbo
What you describe is a Police State.

And I didn't even mention the on-duty cop who killed an unwanted man @ 100 yards with 3 warning shots and was promoted to sargeant back in the late '70's or early '80's. I'm not blowing smoke either, I knew the one who killed the 16 year old personally and went to high school with the one I just mentioned's little brother.

26 posted on 03/03/2002 5:48:28 AM PST by putupon
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To: bimbo
bimbo....

Bush has done NO house cleaning. Nada zip. To make matters worse he has promoted a female FBI agent into the number three slot at FBI, she happens to be minority, eight years I believe in FBI. She will be in charge of saying who gets hired at FBI this year and they are hiring 900 more agents. Chandra Chambers I think is her name or something like that. Her bio is very thin as you might suspect.

27 posted on 03/03/2002 5:48:54 AM PST by cynicom
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To: Dane
I don't hate the police and I think they have a tough job...that being said, shooting an eagle scout in the face in broad daylight when there is no indication that he was doing anything wrong or threatening is a bit over the top. The fact that the sorry bastards won't release the name of the agent who did the shooting makes me want to punch a wall.

As far as winning a big lawsuit goes, I don't know about you, but if I had the choice between money or having my face/head in one piece I think I'd rather have my face. In fact, your comment and apparent disregard for the poor kid who was shot is sickening, you filthy pig. Maybe you should do one of those suicide by police things so your family can collect $$?

28 posted on 03/03/2002 5:53:17 AM PST by cactmh
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To: Agent Smith
About $20 Million, I would say.

If it gets that far. The family of the 11-year old boy who was shot in the back by a SWAT team (an "accidental discharge" into the boy's back as he lay face down on his bedroom floor) settled for $450,000 from the Feds.

29 posted on 03/03/2002 5:53:17 AM PST by Wolfie
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To: Donald Stone
The Keystone Kops are at it again, they must be the most inefficent police force in the world.
30 posted on 03/03/2002 5:54:26 AM PST by Texbob
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To: Agent Smith
The "reason" given for this policy is "because badguys will NOT take you seriously if your finger is NOT on the trigger." The English translation of which is: The badguys will disrespect you, (a capital offense, if I ever heard one) if you demonstrate a prudent concern for their lives.

This doesn't surpise me. Perhaps the one size fits all training mentality needs to be modified. There is a big difference between known "badguys" and a couple of kids coming back from the mall. Training agents to wrap the forward joint of their trigger finger around the trigger is asking for trouble. You can be just as ready to fire if your trigger finger is extended, but "feeling" the trigger. Innocent Eagle Scouts will be safer too.

31 posted on 03/03/2002 5:55:19 AM PST by arm958
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To: CrossCheck
Forget the car accident, these guys are supposed to uphold the law and are supposed to be "professionals". They should be held to a much higher standard.
32 posted on 03/03/2002 5:55:55 AM PST by cactmh
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To: Dane
An innocent man is shot in the face by a federal agent, and you use the opportunity to implicitly smear anyone tempted to express concern for it as a cop hater. Nice.
33 posted on 03/03/2002 5:57:24 AM PST by Basil Duke
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To: Dane
No police or law enforcemwnt agency will ever be perfect.

I for one support my state Sheriff's Association, with money. Not everyone is a black and white blockhead Dane, you're projecting again.

The problem is we have undertrained, easily frightend, urban Rambo wannabe cowboys using military weapons when the situation doesn't call for such.

Arming police in such a fashion was needed, as they were outgunned in certain violent situations such as a hostage standoff etc. Now we have weapons that I was trained with to kill foriegn enemies being used on a day to day basis in such operations as collecting contraband and making garden variety arrests. The pendulum has swung too far.

In 1993 'only 2 percent of civilian shootings involved an innocent person mistakenly identified as a criminal. The 'error rate' for the police, however, was 11 percent, more than five times as high.
Newsweek, November 15, 1993

Citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as police do every year (1,527 to 606).
Kleck, Point Blank: Guns and Violence in America, (1991):111-116, 148.

34 posted on 03/03/2002 6:00:16 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: cactmh; Dane
I don't hate the police and I think they have a tough job...that being said, shooting an eagle scout in the face in broad daylight when there is no indication that he was doing anything wrong or threatening is a bit over the top.

Sing it brother. Don't try to reason with Dane, he belongs to this organization:


35 posted on 03/03/2002 6:04:55 AM PST by AAABEST
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To: AAABEST
You know that this is a family board and that you shouldn't post images of your fetishes.
36 posted on 03/03/2002 6:06:42 AM PST by Dane
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To: AAABEST
Ooooh, that's a low blow. I like it!
37 posted on 03/03/2002 6:07:44 AM PST by Fred Mertz
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To: Dialup Llama
Actually the agent in the Elian raid had his finger exactly right. He had it extended, along the receiver, maybe touching the guard but not in it.

That is the only thing I am aware of which was done properly in that raid.

38 posted on 03/03/2002 6:08:42 AM PST by yarddog
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To: John Farson
"What next? Folks will be making excuses when the burn down churches and shoot 14-year old kids in the back."

Yep, like WACO?

39 posted on 03/03/2002 6:10:02 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: AAABEST
The problem is we have undertrained, easily frightend, urban Rambo wannabe cowboys using military weapons when the situation doesn't call for such.

What you are saying here is rather disparaging about the people you claim to support. The issue isn't what weapons are used but training. Under stress you will revert to training. If you have to rely on your thought process panic sets in and all proper proceedures go out the window.

I'm confident this agent was improperly trained. That's true of the majority of law enforcement personnel on the streets - including federal agents.

40 posted on 03/03/2002 6:12:14 AM PST by toddst
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