How clever of you Woody to attempt a Saturday night massacre in the hopes that latecomers to the thread would not scroll back.
xzins has spent DAYS attempting to define the TULIP concept in a valid, and fair attempt to define exactly what you DO believe. He has repeatedly asked for every Calvinist on this thread to offer edits, which he has offered to make until the definitions meet your satisfaction.
He has also offered the five Arminian objections for consideration.
What you believe is all over this thread.
We disagree with it, but we know what it is.
For days the Calvinists on this tread have tried to discuss the T in the tulip..in response we get multi colored large print screaming posts ignoring our request.
I have read that only the powerless raise their voice..I have thought of that several times as the giant multicolored posts showed up to grab the attention of the lurkers..
The difference is we do not have to yell
No, you really don't. You don't know, for instance, how a Calvinist can say that God created Hitler and that Hitler could not do anything outside the will of God and yet God is not responsible for the evil that Hitler did. You really don't know it because you continue to misstate our beliefs in this.
And you yet don't know how a Calvinist can say that the Bible explains how simple an answer it is to explain how somebody believes in a saving way.
You really don't know much of anything about Calvinism.
| FreeChoice Position. | Scripture | Implication | Calvinist Objection | Calvinist Implication |
| 1. - - God elects only on the basis of foreseen faith and condemns only on the basis of resistance to grace. | John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: . Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined Joshua 24:15 Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve...But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord ." Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. |
People go to heaven or hell based on their own choices for or against Christ. God foreknew their choice. | U - - Unconditional Election means that God has elected for His own glory, in accordance with His own will and without regard for the merit of those elected, some for salvation and some to be left in their sins. | God chooses whether or not any individual will be saved. He chooses based on his own reasons which he has not revealed. |
| FreeChoice Position. | Scripture | Implication | Calvinist Objection | Calvinist Implication |
| 1. - - God elects only on the basis of foreseen faith and condemns only on the basis of resistance to grace. | John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined Joshua 24:15 Choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve...But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord ." Revelation 7:9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. |
People go to heaven or hell based on their own choices for or against Christ. God foreknew their choice. | U - - Unconditional Election means that God has elected for His own glory, in accordance with His own will and without regard for the merit of those elected, some for salvation and some to be left in their sins. | God chooses whether or not any individual will be saved. He chooses based on his own reasons which he has not revealed. |
| 2. - - Christ provided a universal opportunity by dying for all men and for every man such that ALL those who turn to him as true repentant believers are saved. | 1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Acts 17:25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us. |
The opportunity for Salvation is available to everyone. Christ's sacrifice is sufficient to cover all sin. | L - - Limited Atonement means that Christ died specifically and only for the sins of those who would ever truly believe in Him.. | Christ's sacrifice was intended only for those who were chosen ahead of time for salvation. |
I doubt that they know what it is! Woody did not know that Calvin held to the two natured view in Romans 7 until he read it on one of my posts!
I think we are educating them on Calvinism!