Orthodox Jews Mass Protest Against the State of Israel

natureikarta ^ | 12 February, 2002

[Sam_Watkins]

Estimated 20,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrating on Tuesday February 12th, in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York City, organized by the Central Rabbinical Congress of USA and Canada, to voice their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel, their suppression of religion and brutal treatment of religious people.

The posters read as follows: [L-R] "Israel" dos not represent world Jewry
Rabbinical leaders fought Zionism since its inception
Authentic Rabbis always opposed Zionism and the State of Israel
Zionism have no right to rule over any part of the holy land
No doubt! Herzl's dream was a catastrophe for Jews
Zionism stole the name of Jews
"Israel" dos not represent world Jewry
Jews mourn 53 years existence of "Israel"
True Jews will never recognize Israel
Torah Jewry is united against Zionism & the State of Israel
Zionist ideology opposes the Creator
Oh No! Zionism will never succeed
We are against "Israel" because we are Jews
Zionism and Judaism are extreme opposites
Background sign: Israeli government: stop oppressing religious Jewry in the State of Israel

[Cachelot]

Orhtodox do not recognize the secular state of Israel, but a religious one.

The Neturei Karta are hardly "normal" orthodox.

In 1994, at a ceremony in Jericho marking the inauguration of Yasser Arafat's self-rule government, members of Neturei Karta—who identified with the Palestinian cause by repeatedly going to East Jerusalem hospitals to visit Arabs wounded during the Intifada—embraced and kissed Arafat.

[Senator Pardek]

Suppose you give me an *objective* example?

"Israel was wrong to sell arms to the Communist China".

[Cachelot]

Wishful thinking? Let's see the REAL Veronica

Boltie!!! Geez, don't you have some rocks to throw or a camel to polish or something?

[Nix 2]

Chabad and OU are Orthodox as well and never would agree with anything NK has to say or anything they do. The ties to Israel and Jerusalem is stronger than most, and very conservative here in the US.

[Askel5]

I haven't seen any purely objective criticism of israel in all the time I've been here.

Wow ... no joke?

(Does that go for all your handles or just "Nix 2"? You see, sometimes folks use different handles to give voice to their different interests or different takes on the same situation. FreedomWins/VinnyTex's consistent characterization of me as a "bimbo" notwithstanding.)

I got to tell you ... sure seems a little extreme?

And I'll admit I'm puzzled as well.

Why in the world would you hang around a place full of unabashed anti-semites? Clearly, it's not to win them over with persuasive debate or you'd not begin by summarily categorize all criticism of Israel as purely subjective and likely "anti-semite"? That can't get things off to a good start, surely.

So ... what about support for Israel? Have you seen any purely objective support for Israel in all the time you've been here?

Does support for Israel merit in and of itself the qualities of objectivity and sanity while, conversely, criticism of Israel is inherently insane, subjective and anti-semite?

[Nix 2]

Israel didn't sell any arms to China that the US didn't give permission for. And the US, especially under clinton, sold them our entire nuclear program and the supercomputers to test them with. Is that what you really consider *objective*?

[Senator Pardek]

Now you're playing games.

What does the U.S. have to do with it? It's possible for both nations to be wrong on this issue, and it's also possible to fairly criticize the U.S.

[Nix 2]

If you'd like to check, and I'm sure you would, there is no secret about who I am. It's on my profile page, and it has never been any deep dark secret as you imply. But if that's the best you can do, c'est la vie, chao, and sayonara, babe.
You don't want answers, you want to cause aggrevation and it just ain't gonna happen. Go play with your little friends.
Finis. Finito. Nice talkin' to ya...objectively.

[Nix 2]

Then I would agree that both were wrong. No prob.

[Senator Pardek]

There - you have your first objective criticism of Israel, courtesy of yours truly.

[Demidog]

There are such Christians you know.

No their aren't. That would preclude their being Christian.

[Alouette]

criticism of Israel is inherently insane, subjective and anti-semite?

The state of Israel is governed by human beings and is therefore imperfect. Not everything Israel does is above reproach. However, holding Israel to a standard of perfection and absolute "morality" that is not at the same time demanded of the Palestinians or any other neighboring Arab nation is indeed subjective, insane, and anti-Jewish.

[SJackson]

I'm happy to read the NK site for kicks but I think I'm more interested in what the Rabbinical Congress has to say, to be honest.

Closely related affiliates, just younger, but I don't think the Rabbinical Congress has a website.

Note their New York Times Ad, Central Rabbinical Congress of the U.S.A. & Canada For further info contact: Rabbi Dovid Weiss Neturei Karta International at (845) 371-0490

[Demidog]

I haven't seen any purely objective criticism of israel in all the time I've been here.

Just because you like to call all critics of the war criminal Sharon "Jew Haters" doesn't mean you haven't seen objective criticism of Israel.

[miss marmelstein]

Exactly. In thir orthodox religion, only the Messiah will return the Jews to Israel. Until then, there can be no Israel. That is not a left wing view. It is a religious view. And as old as time.

[Askel5]

You don't want answers, you want to cause aggrevation and it just ain't gonna happen. Go play with your little friends. Finis. Finito. Nice talkin' to ya...objectively.

Oh brother ... not you too. What's the deal with you guys? I'm down to naught but "Huh?" from Sabra and now you're calling it quits? I can't even get a "yes" or "no" out of Veronica. I'd take it personally but, as you may know, that's not my style either.

Look, Nix 2, bashing is a serious offense around these parts. It can get you banned ... silenced for good.

There is no bashing that will get you banned faster than "anti-semite" bashing. This is why it's of ABSOLUTE IMPORT that I understand where folks are coming from (1) who are most likely to accuse another of anti-semitism and (2) whose Opinions are most likely to be considered in assigning blame for anti-semitism.

That would be you guys. If, for no other reason that -- as exhibited on this thread -- you tend to have very strong Opinions on what is and is not anti-semitism and what is and is not Objective criticism of the State of Israel.

You're now on record as believing that there has never been an objective criticism of Israel raised on these boards.

That's indeed helpful but I'd like to know if that utter lack of objectivity extends to support of Israel as well.

Simple "yes" or "no". And I'll then be most happy to leave you in peace.

[bvw]

Even if the messiah comes, you keep planting trees. That he tarries ...

[Askel5]

Note their New York Times Ad, Central Rabbinical Congress of the U.S.A. & Canada For further info contact: Rabbi Dovid Weiss Neturei Karta International at (845) 371-0490

Hey thanks, I hadn't seen that.

[Nix 2]

Why, thank you, sir.