Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Evolution debate: State board should reject pseudoscience
Columbus Dispatch ^ | February 17, 2002 | Editorial

Posted on 02/18/2002 4:59:53 AM PST by cracker

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 1,421-1,440 next last
To: Sabertooth
Where I think the evidence gets rather thin (not that the thinness disproves evolution itself), is on the matter of what causes evolution.

My belief--completely unscientific and purely philosophical--is that God chooses to make it look random, so as to not leave His fingerprints all over the place. He does this for one purpose, and one purpose only--to not interfere with our free will.

If God were to leave definitive evidence of non-random evolution, then our ability to freely choose to serve him would not exist.

It's like this: suppose there is an elephant in the room with you. Theoretically, one has free will to say that the elephant isn't there. However, no matter how sincerely one holds the belief that there isn't an elephant in the room, the room is STILL going to be extremely crowded.

61 posted on 02/20/2002 2:03:04 PM PST by Poohbah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
Very briefly (because I am not a biologist), population genetics is controlled by a variety of mechanisms:

1. Genetic Drift - chance changes in the gene pool of a small population. This includes something called the Founder Effect where a new colony is established in a new habitat by only a few individuals and is not representative of the original population, and the Bottleneck Effect where a small number of individuals of a species survive, but again are not representative of the original population.

2. Gene Flow - a gain or loss of alleles by migration of fertile individuals between populations.

3. Mutations - changes in an organisms DNA, a relatively rare event occurring once per every 10e5 or 10e6 gametes.

4. Non-Random Mating - including inbreeding and assortative mating (based on phenotype).

5. Natural Selection - differential success in reproduction (often due to changes in environment).

62 posted on 02/20/2002 2:04:21 PM PST by Scully
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Poohbah
If God were to leave definitive evidence of non-random evolution, then our ability to freely choose to serve him would not exist.

An excellent point. Thank you! :)

63 posted on 02/20/2002 2:07:47 PM PST by Scully
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: f.Christian
As a child...the sign baffled me---"Jesus Saves"---green stamps! Your will doesn't exist till then...vegetables--alfalfa sprouts!

Say what?

64 posted on 02/20/2002 2:08:18 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: Lurking Libertarian
I gave up trying to understand this guy's posts some time ago.
65 posted on 02/20/2002 2:11:13 PM PST by Poohbah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: f.Christian
It is possible to be a born-again Christian and a scientist who feels that evolution is the best theory we have to date to explain how life arose on our planet. The two are not mutually exclusive.
66 posted on 02/20/2002 2:14:17 PM PST by Scully
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Lurking Libertarian
Your will--soul--sanity doesn't exist till then...

Didn't evolution lead to the behaviorist--culture craze...B F Skinner---Dr. Liberalism/Brave New World...

create the perfect environment and we would have spontaneous happiness?

He raised his daughter in a box---she killed herself!

67 posted on 02/20/2002 2:19:09 PM PST by f.Christian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: lexcorp
Knowing gore3000, he'll take a look at your link and claim that evolutionists say coyotes are descended from whales. Do not underestimate the power of willful ignorance...
68 posted on 02/20/2002 2:21:29 PM PST by Junior
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Scully
Thomas Khun put that idea of science to rest--the grave...

putting saw dust in the drive train is a good way to unload a piece of junk...

in the paradigm shift that junk gets paved over--put in a museum--out to pasture!

69 posted on 02/20/2002 2:24:55 PM PST by f.Christian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: Scully
It is possible to be a born-again Christian and a scientist who feels that evolution is the best theory we have to date to explain how life arose on our planet. The two are not mutually exclusive.

If by "not mutually exclusive" you mean that the human psyche is capable of affirming two logically mutual-exclusives without being troubled by the contradiction, you of course are correct. Human mentality is capable of that, and a host of other evils. That is like saying, "It is possible to be a fiscal and social conservative who feels that a totalitarian state controlling all of human life and commerce, and crushing out every last vestige of human freedom, is the best form of government."

If, however, you mean that it can be done consistently with one's professed faith — that is, with the Bible — then you are mistaken.

Dan
Biblical Christianity message board

70 posted on 02/20/2002 2:25:30 PM PST by BibChr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: BibChr
New game---relief pitcher...I'm going to the showers...

I'm responsible for loading the bases--one out!

71 posted on 02/20/2002 2:29:57 PM PST by f.Christian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Scully
Galapagos finches (Geospiza fortis) have been studied for years by Peter and Rosemary Grant of Princeton University. They have been studying the beak sizes of these birds relative to the amount of rainfall the islands receive annually. In wet years, finches with smaller beaks are favored because of the abundance of small, easy to crush seeds. During drought years, only larger, tougher seeds are available. Finches with small beaks are unable to open these seeds and die out, while finches with larger beaks survive. This is natural selection (or evolution).

That's microevolution. I don't believe there is any disagreement between evolutionists and creationists of the existence of such microevolution.

72 posted on 02/20/2002 2:35:48 PM PST by scripter
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: RadioAstronomer;Sabertooth
Excellent point! The "randomness" is really a description of a population's characteristics, like height, weight or eye color. The reactions within the sex cells at the molecular level aren't random and neither is the fertilization when the sex cells join. The actions of these molecules is very specific. The mechanisms for this are just not well understood. If the mechanisms were understood, there'd be an HIV vaccine.

To Sabertooth's point about reshuffling genes, humans contain genes for gills and probably some other stuff (wings would be cool, but I don't think we could fly). Look at human embryonic developmental characteristics. But genes are added and destroyed. There are simple viral vectors for some activity and bacteria can swap DNA readily. There are also situations where DNA can become truncated. Again the processes are not well understood.

Technology has reached the point where these mechanisms can be described over the next several hundred years or less. There's a lot of data, but the procedures are becoming automated and computer power and memory are no longer a constraint. This is a key point in history where this technology can benefit us in the hands of a free people or create God knows what suffering in the hands of people like x42. As a Christian, I'm saying we're better off having this technology in the hands of people who have moral values and who value life.

73 posted on 02/20/2002 2:39:39 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: Sabertooth
Good News For The Day

‘But I say to all of you: In the future, you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the mighty One.’ (Matthew 26:64)

If the universe is moral, (and the fact that such a person as Christ existed, is strong evidence that it is), then what Jesus said about himself and the future, must come true. If morality has an infinite source, and backing, then the moral excellence of Christ will ultimately triumph over evil.

I know some very agreeable people. I know some that I would call gentle giants. But their easygoing spirit is never a threat to greed and corruption. Kindness, patience, understanding, and love are not better than envy and bitterness, if they only ever exist as counterweights to their opposites. A good man who is content to coexist forever with badness, and wrong, cannot be a good man in any absolute sense.

The goodness of Jesus is surpassing because he not only sorrowed over sin, and was outraged by it, he set himself against it, and warned his enemies that by suffering for it, he would rise above it, and eliminate it.

If our universe is a moral one, then Jesus' values can never be viewed in any offhand way. Rather, he must be seen as a hazard to every act, motive, system, institution, or law, that is not in sympathy with him. A question that governments and their constituents ought to ask is: Are we making laws; invoking policies that clash with Christ and the direction of his Spirit? If so we are building badly. The universe itself will not back us. The... future belongs to Christ-and to all who follow him.

74 posted on 02/20/2002 2:41:48 PM PST by f.Christian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
bttt
75 posted on 02/20/2002 3:42:29 PM PST by f.Christian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: f.Christian
There is always hope. 'Crack babies' catch up.
76 posted on 02/20/2002 4:53:00 PM PST by PatrickHenry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: scripter
That's microevolution. I don't believe there is any disagreement between evolutionists and creationists of the existence of such microevolution.

This is very interesting...I wasn't aware that Creationists acknowledged any form of evolution.

Another point: if it can occur in a small, isolated society, it can occur on a larger scale as well.

77 posted on 02/20/2002 4:55:40 PM PST by Scully
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 72 | View Replies]

To: BibChr
If, however, you mean that it can be done consistently with one's professed faith — that is, with the Bible — then you are mistaken.

Then I am indeed a "cracked pot", because I find no contradiction between my faith and my science (and yes, I do actually read my Bible with great regularity).

78 posted on 02/20/2002 4:59:49 PM PST by Scully
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: f.Christian
It is very sad to me, and doubtless to the Lord as well, that His children fight amongst themselves over matters unrelated to Salvation.
79 posted on 02/20/2002 5:06:32 PM PST by Scully
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 71 | View Replies]

To: cracker
The scientific approach expands knowledge about the natural world; the religious approach impedes it.

This is true, but it doesn't mean that a scientist has to be irreligious. It means that a scientist has to keep his religion out of his science.

80 posted on 02/20/2002 5:12:56 PM PST by VadeRetro
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 41-6061-8081-100 ... 1,421-1,440 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson