Let's shorten it.
Those he foreknew he predestined = God knew those who ENDOWED WITH FREE CHOICE would choose him. Those who would choose him he predestined. Universal opportunity was an operant principle in God's mind AS HE FOREKNEW.
As far as the 1 Peter verse: 18For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. 20He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake. 21Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
This says we should live holy lives because we were redeemed by a wonderful sacrifice that had been planned before creation. In other words, the redemption was on God's mind during the time in which he FOREKNEW as in above. Since the Son has been eternally the 2nd Person of the Trinity, there was no reason for the Son to choose the Father....they have ALWAYS been in perfect unity (I and my Father are ONE.) Your logic doesn't sustain in light of the Trinity.
What was on God's mind before the foundation of the world?... "Whosoever believeth in Him...." This is PROOF that when God "foreknew his creation" that FREE CHOICE was already on his mind as an operating principle for the man which he would create.
Therefore, those who God saw choose him of their free will are those he FOREKNEW and, therefore, those he predestined. Why is this so difficult to see? It is so obviously true and biblical and the only interpretation that preserves a straightforward interpretation of whosoever will may come. We are now in the period of time in which that enacting of God's foreknowledge is taking place. Each person is freely choosing. Their choice can be swayed by a proclamation of the gospel.
Universal opportunity MUST be preserved.
Stop denying the gospel with this "God set it in stone and picked those who would be saved and those who would be damned" lazy interpretation of scripture. Free choice reigned throughout God's foreknowing. Predestination did not exist throughout the foreknowing BECAUSE "those he foreknew he predestined."
The predestining came AFTER the foreknowing was ALREADY COMPLETE.
I BUMPED you over an hour ago about sharing the Gospel with sturatcr over on the "Why I Believe Predestination" thread. Why did you have time to respond to Jean Cauvin, but not time to go share the Gospel with him during this time?
Let's shorten it.
Those he foreknew he predestined = God knew those who ENDOWED WITH FREE CHOICE would choose him. Those who would choose him he predestined. Universal opportunity was an operant principle in God's mind AS HE FOREKNEW"
X, thats really nice, BUT, that is not what these texts say. These texts say nothing to the effect that the foreknowledge of God means he knew man would choose him. It simply is not there. You are making it up out of thin air. Your adding this to the text. There isn't even the hint in these passages that we choose him. There is no scripture which speaks of God's foreknowledge and uses these words. You have shown again, that you are changing the definitions of these words to fit your theology.
I understand the need for you to do this, X. For if God's foreknowledge doesn't mean what you say it means, then indeed predestination is Biblical. You need it to mean this or your whole theology crumbles. But the fact is, X, "foreknowledge" in no way implies God knowing what we would do and then predestinating that decision. That doesn't even make any sense! Listen to yourself. "God new that we would someday choose him, so he chose us" That's akin to having your cake and eating it too.
What I attempted to show you in my last post, X, is that "foreknowledge" when used in other places in the New Testament makes no sense if we apply your definition to this word. To illustrate this absurdity, I quoted 1 Peter 1:20 which uses the very same word! I then tried to apply your definition to this word. Did God's foreknowing Christ's work mean, as your logic would require, that God knew Christ would choose him so He chose Christ. That is so rediculous even you admitted that is not the proper meaning. Well, X, if it is not the proper meaning there, how can it be the proper meaning in Romans 8:29,30?
Hint...do a study on the root word of "foreknow": know; ginosko (Strong's 1097)-many definitions, but which one applies. Obvious, in Romans 8 is God's relationship with the believer. You and I can agree on this, I think. I would think, then, to resolve what this means, we would go to Scripture and look to see if there are any other uses of "foreknow" (proginosko) or it's root "know" (ginosko). Not suprisingly, we can find such verses:
1 Corinthians 8:3 "But if man love God, the same is known of him" Awkward reading so I will quote my greek interlinear "but if anyone love God, he is known by him". This is not saying here, "but if anyone love God, God knew man would love him". It simply says, "he is known by God".
John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine." Again, a bit awkward, so I will again quote from my greek interlinear, "I am the shepherd good; and I know those that [are] mine, and am known of those that [are] mine.". Is Christ claiming he "knows the choices of his sheep"? Choice isn't even an issue here. He simply knows them. But this, as the previous text I cited is ambiguous? What does it mean to "know". Well, all we need to do is go only one verse more in John 10: John 10:15 "As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father..." (emphasis mine). Here we have the key. To "know" means and implies a deep personal understanding and relationship. Christ "knows" us. He has a deep understanding, knowledge and relationship with us just as Christ "knows" the Father and the Father "knows" Christ. They have a mutual deep understanding, knowledge and relationship of each other. So, we can now easily see what pro (before) ginosko (know) means in this description of the relationship of God to the believer. He before the foundation of the world had a deep understanding, knowledge and relationship to us before we were even created and necessarily BEFORE we knew him. The rest flows easily from here:
Those he deeply and intimately knew as his sheep, he predestined, those he predestined, he called, those he called he justified, and those he justified he also glorified.
So wonderful is this message, God knew me personally before the foundations of the world. I was considered his sheep, his possession before the world was created. How wonderfully humbling and exhilerating this message is that I need do nothing to earn my salvation. It is sealed by him. I am his.
Glory to God in the Highest!
Jean