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Examiner columnist blasts "FreeRepugnant.com"
sf examiner ^ | Feb 15, 02 | Debby Morse

Posted on 02/15/2002 10:23:06 PM PST by churchillbuff

FreeRepugnant.com

By Debby Morse Of The Examiner Staff

AFTER MY COLUMN last Friday about President Bush's decision to classify fetuses as children, I received a spate of angry mail. One kind soul e-mailed me an alert that the column had been posted on FreeRepublic.com, "The Premier Conservative News Forum," and predicted that I'd be getting "an onslaught of hate mail from rabid right-wing freaks."

(Quick glimpse at some of the messages I got: "Is that the way you spend all your time? Hating people?" "Would you look down from Heaven and defend your mother if she had aborted you?" "Your panic and fear is obvious by the way you write.")

So I thought I ought to pay a visit to the Web site. On the FreeRepublic home page, I was welcomed thus: "We're working to roll back decades of governmental largesse, to root out political fraud and corruption, and to champion causes which further conservatism in America. And we always have fun doing it. Hoo-yah!" No objections there from me. Freedom of speech; gotta love it. And who's in favor of political fraud and corruption? Not I. Still ... I don't know why, but that "Hoo-yah!" unsettled me. (Maybe because it's like "yahoo" backwards?)

Anyway, the site is a collection of forums and postings on various umbrella topics such as foreign affairs, activism and philosophy, with links to sites like the Cato Institute (a libertarian forum on public policy), the Drudge Report, the Heritage Foundation (a conservative think tank), the Rush Limbaugh show and the Linda Tripp Defense Fund (with a post-make-over photo -- hey, why not?).

And here's the best part: It's a great opportunity to "eavesdrop" on the conversations of people who chat there, seemingly secure in the belief that they are among friends and can say whatever they want. They can! First Amendment! But, boy, a lot of what they said there about my column is even nastier than what they e-mailed to me. * * *

LET'S LISTEN IN. Breakem writes: "Come out with your legs up and let the baby go and nobody gets hurt." Clintonh8r says: "Debby's a little crampy today, huh?" MissAmericanPie wishes me this fortune: "May her uterus be as barren as her soul. I pity the unlucky man that finds his way there, or the baby that tries to find warmth, love, or life in that cold, void, steel locker she calls her uterus."

Some of the postings were so bizarre that saner heads felt obliged to butt in and warn them to cool it. Following a useless exchange of comments that fetuses are "respiring" beings, Hank Kerchief pleads: "These continued ignorant arguments are playing right into the hands of the pro-choice movement. Please think before helping to increase the number of abortions being performed every day."

One of the shoddier bits of logic came in an e-mail: "You hate President Bush because he is a conservative and a Republican. I despise you because you are a traitor to this country. You tear down a president during wartime with false charges. You may be a citizen of this country, but you are not an American. You are also a pretty lousy feminist; you promote an outdated, divisive political agenda that does not serve women. You want to deal in reality? Here is the scoop. Most of my friends and I have concluded that being home is a fabulous choice. We choose our families. You liberals choose an outdated, dangerous political agenda which certainly contributed to the 9-11 horror. Liberals elected President Clinton who 'fiddled' while bin Laden plotted. You mock the victims of 9-11 with your despicable column."

Honey, I'm going to have to revoke your license to argue.

I also received an e-mail with a photo of a very mature fetus' arm protruding through -- what? -- a hole in a pregnant belly? A bloody image meant to shock. Turns out the same photo is posted on the FreeRepublic thread about my column, but the contributor, calling himself Revelation 911, confides that it's actually a picture of in-utero surgery and that the gestation went full-term. * * *

THESE PEOPLE SEEM to hate women. Even MissAmericanPie says, "No doubt her kind are very odd, the Jane Fonda militant female type. I've always kind of pictured Eve as being like that, more feline than female, resentful and rebellious against everything she was meant to be, finding no satisfaction in anything else either."

There are a couple of ugly remarks regarding anatomy and even rape, and a bunch of digs at San Francisco. A few people suggested it was time for another earthquake here. It was supposed to be funny, but it amounts to a wish for my death. There's a lot of that among pro-lifers, I guess. Someone suggested advocates for choice should commit suicide!

After reading "arguments" like that, I'm more dedicated than ever to wanting to keep my body private.

E-mail Debby Morse at dmorse@sfexaminer.com

Read the postings at : www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/624590/posts


TOPICS: Breaking News; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: hughhewitt
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To: RonDog
http://www.truthorfiction.com/
301 posted on 02/16/2002 6:20:22 PM PST by Salvation
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To: The Right Stuff

Nah, no books yet, but I'll get around to one later this year.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

302 posted on 02/16/2002 6:22:30 PM PST by section9
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To: Salvation
Baby Samuel
EXACTLY. If you define the "legend" properly, it is obviously "TRUE!"
From http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/babysamuel.htm:
Picture of a Surgeon Holding Hands With a 21-week Old Fetus-Truth!

   

Summary of the eRumor
A picture is being circulated on the Internet of a tiny hand coming out of its mother's womb and being held by the gloved finger of a surgeon.  The picture is accompanied by the explanation that the doctor was performing surgery when the baby's hand emerged from the incision and grasped the doctor's hand and claims the baby was only 21 weeks old.  

The Truth
According to the mother who had the surgery and Vanderbilt University, where the surgery took place, this story is mostly true.  Dr. Joseph Bruner at Vanderbilt is known for his work in fetal surgery, especially on babies with spina bifida, a condition in which the spine does not close properly during development.   Vanderbilt confirms that the baby was 21 weeks-old in the womb which makes the surgery very risky because if anything goes wrong, the baby cannot survive on its own.  Dr. Bruner and his colleagues, however, have done numerous successful spina bifida surgeries on fetuses that are not yet viable.  In this particular surgery, the baby's hand poked out of the incision in its mother's womb and Dr. Bruner says he instinctively offered his finger for the baby to hold.  Most versions of the story say the baby reached out and grasped Dr. Bruner's finger, but in an article in USA Today on May 2, 2000, Dr. Bruner says both the mother and the baby were under anesthesia and could not move.  It was Dr. Bruner who reached out and grasped the baby's hand.   The picture was taken by freelance photographer Michael Clancy, who was hired by USA TODAY to photograph the surgery.  

Update:  The surgery was successful and little Samuel Armas was born on December 2, 1999, and has been developing well, according to his parents, Alex and Julie Armas.

A real example of the eRumor as it has appeared on the Internet:

This picture of a 21-week fetus hand reaching up through an incision in its mother's uterus to grab the finger of the surgeon who had just performed a life-saving procedure appeared in the November 16 edition of The National Enquirer.

It should be "The Picture of the Year," or perhaps, "The Picture of the Decade."

The 21-week-old unborn baby is named Samuel Alexander Armas, and is being operated on by a surgeon named Joseph Bruner. The baby was diagnosed with spina bifida and would not survive if removed from the mother's womb.

Little Samuel's mother, Julie Armas, is an obstetrics nurse in Atlanta. She knew of Dr. Bruner's remarkable surgical procedure. Practicing at Vanderbilt University Medical Center in Nashville, he performs these special operations while the baby is still in the womb. In the procedure, a C-section removes the uterus and the doctor makes a small incision to operate on the baby.

During the surgery on little Samuel, the little guy reached his tiny, but fully developed, hand through the incision and firmly grasped the surgeon's finger. The photograph captures this amazing event with perfect clarity.

The editors titled the picture, "Hand of Hope."

The text explaining the picture begins, "The tiny hand of 21-week-old foetus Samuel Alexander Armas emerges from the mother's uterus to grasp the finger of Dr. Joseph Bruner as if thanking the doctor for the gift of life."

That picture should be shown on every television newscast and run in every newspaper in America. It is a graphic reminder that growing in the womb of his or her mother is a baby. It is not a "glob of tissue," or "product of conception." That pre-born baby is a human being with all the emotions, will and personality of any human being. That picture says it in a way that a thousand words cannot.

Little Samuel's mother said they "wept for days" when they saw the picture. She said, "The photo reminds us my pregnancy isn't about disability or illness, it's about a little person." That's what it's always been about. That's what the liberal elite have tried to get us to forget. May this image jog our memories so that we will never forget. 


303 posted on 02/16/2002 6:29:41 PM PST by RonDog
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To: gg188
about 50% of the aborted fetuses would grow up to be women
304 posted on 02/16/2002 6:30:51 PM PST by teeman8r
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To: Salvation; madprof98; Clinton's a liar
See also, from:
Amazing prenatal photo changes a family for life
Posted on 04/08/2000 14:19:36 PDT by madprof98
I hadn't seen this one before:

34 Posted on 04/11/2000 20:56:18 PDT by Clinton's a liar


305 posted on 02/16/2002 6:41:45 PM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog
Personally, I do not care very much about what a "second-rate writer at a third-rate newspaper" has to say about this forum.

Amen. And a major bump to boot.

306 posted on 02/16/2002 6:44:41 PM PST by Euro-American Scum
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To: Salvation
A few people suggested it was time for another earthquake here. It was supposed to be funny, but it amounts to a wish for my death.

Yeah, Debby. We get it. It's all about you, isn't it?

307 posted on 02/16/2002 6:47:57 PM PST by Euro-American Scum
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To: semper_libertas
she's right, there is some very repugnant stuff on FR.

Yeah, it's called posting the 'liberal' trash, but if we didn't post it how could we explain it?

308 posted on 02/16/2002 6:50:33 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: Salvation
THESE PEOPLE SEEM to hate women.

Wrong again, Debby. As usual. We don't hate women. We don't even hate radical feminists.

But we do pity YOU.

309 posted on 02/16/2002 6:51:35 PM PST by Euro-American Scum
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To: All
Also from that thread:

"...'When we found out she was pregnant, it was such a joyous occasion,' Alex said. 'We waited week after week, until we passed the point where she had the other miscarriages. And when we finally found out he had this problem, it was devastating.'

They found, via the Internet, a team at Vanderbilt University in Nashville who have developed a technique for operating on fetuses in mid-pregnancy. After weeks of referral and screening, the physicians' group accepted the Armases as candidates for the risky operation. Julie was 21 weeks pregnant; the early fetal age meant a better chance of reversing skull deformities and hydrocephalus, an accumulation of fluid that presses on the brain. But it was so early that if Julie spontaneously delivered during the surgery, Samuel would not survive.

Simultaneously, the couple agreed to allow the procedure to be documented: USA Today had been preparing a story about the surgical team and wanted to observe them in action. When Julie was wheeled in for surgery last Aug. 19, a reporter and photographer were in the OR.

The surgery, a modified Caesarean section with the fetus remaining in the womb, went smoothly. Dr. Noel Tulipan, Vanderbilt's director of pediatric neurosurgery, repaired Samuel's spine. Dr. Joseph Bruner, the surgeon leading the operation, began to close the opening in Julie's uterus. And then the anesthetized fetus shifted.

His thumbnail-sized hand flopped out of the incision. Bruner lifted it and tucked it back. The photographer clicked the shutter. Julie, completely sedated, knew nothing of it; neither did Alex, alone in the recovery room, nor the church and family members in the waiting area. With the surgery successfully completed, the couple went home three days later --- Julie on bed rest to keep Samuel inside as long as possible, Alex back to work at Delta Air Lines.

And on Sept. 7, the phone began to ring. The photograph, shot by freelancer Michael Clancy of Nashville, was inside USA Today...

...To ease the strain, Bruner often talks to the fetuses while he works --- to soothe them and keep them quiet, and to let them know what is going on. Sometimes he conveys a message from the parents: We love you. We are trying our best to help.

'So I feel like I have developed a personal relationship with each of the fetuses,' he said. 'So when Samuel's hand appeared in the uterine opening, I impulsively reached out and lifted it. It was a very human thing to do, to reach out and take someone's hand.'

Over his shoulder, Bruner heard the photographer's motordrive fire.

'When I saw the proof, I was astonished at what a powerful photograph it was,' he said. 'But even so, I was surprised by the media attention that it received.'

A miraculous photo

Michael Clancy, who took the photograph, describes himself as 'long-haired, with no college, from the wrong side of the tracks.' A former carpenter who is passionate about photojournalism, the 43-year-old freelances for a living, and tries to keep his days free for the Tennessean, Nashville's main newspaper.

The Tennessean and USA Today belong to the same newspaper chain, Gannett Corp. On the day of Julie Armas' surgery, the national paper asked the local paper to send one of their staff photographers to the hospital. But the staff shooters were all busy, and Clancy was assigned instead.

The procedure took an hour and 13 minutes. Clancy shot nine rolls of film, an average of one frame every 15 seconds. In the middle of the ninth roll, 'I was watching the uterus, and I saw it vibrate,' he said. 'And right after that the hand came flying out, all the way to the elbow, and then pulled back. I held my breath and shot as fast as I could, and I squeezed off four shots before the doctor tucked it back.'

He mailed off the undeveloped film that night, not knowing whether the shots he had grabbed were even in focus. He didn't see the results for almost three weeks, until a friend at the Tennessean pulled it off the company computer network a few days before the story was scheduled to run.

'My jaw dropped open. I couldn't say anything,' Clancy recalled. 'And my friend Sam said, 'That is a miraculous photo...' ' "

The Lord works in mysterious ways...
310 posted on 02/16/2002 6:54:17 PM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog
One kind soul e-mailed me an alert that the column had been posted on FreeRepublic.com, "The Premier Conservative News Forum,"

Hehe, I like that.

311 posted on 02/16/2002 6:55:30 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: Victoria Delsoul
One kind soul e-mailed me an alert that the column had been posted on FreeRepublic.com, "The Premier Conservative News Forum,"

Hehe, I like that.

LOL!!! We sometimes forget the beauty of the Free Republic home page.

The Robinsons (Jim and John) do a very effective job with ADVERTISING our core beliefs to newbies and lurkers.

(I particularly like their NEW addition there - about what Dubya SHOULD say...)
FreeRepublic.com ~ The Premier Conservative News Forum
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"Not over my dead body will they curtail your free speech!"
-- President George "Dubya" Bush (what he should say re: CFR)


312 posted on 02/16/2002 7:05:44 PM PST by RonDog
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To: RonDog
When I read about the Baby Samuel story a long time ago, there were several other stories about this kind of surgery and several pictures also. Trouble is................I cannot remember where I found the stories! Bah!

But I had not seen this one either.

313 posted on 02/16/2002 7:10:25 PM PST by Salvation
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To: RonDog
Bump!
314 posted on 02/16/2002 7:14:13 PM PST by Victoria Delsoul
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To: churchillbuff
Dear Ms Morse, please kiss my rabid right wing a**. You can quote me on that. --MM
315 posted on 02/16/2002 7:34:03 PM PST by mustapha mond
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To: lil679
Did you see this one?
316 posted on 02/16/2002 7:50:03 PM PST by Brad’s Gramma
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To: MeeknMing
Thanks for the heads up!
317 posted on 02/16/2002 7:57:32 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: sweetliberty
I stand corrected.
318 posted on 02/16/2002 8:04:32 PM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: RonDog
Conversely, the reason that liberals do so POORLY on talk radio (and the Internet) is that they must constantly DEFEND their positions, most of which are emotionally FELT, but not logically REASONED. Makes sense to me. ;)

Unfortunately, it's hard for outside observers to get any idea of how things are filtered; since such a small fraction of e.g. Rush Limbaugh's listeners get on the air it's tough to know how the sampling that do get on compare with the audience at large.

Still, I think that it would probably be good for Rush to have more liberal callers on his show. If a fence-sitter hears Rush say something and thinks of a counter-argument, they're going to believe that they were right and Rush was wrong unless Rush in fact addresses that counter-argument. The more liberal arguments can get addressed, the more effectively the show can win over fence-sitters.

On the other hand, since Rush bills himself as an entertainer rather than a political pundit, perhaps he would rather entertain those who are already conservative than try more to win over fence-sitters. His show, his prerogative.

319 posted on 02/16/2002 9:23:59 PM PST by supercat
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To: supercat; M. Thatcher
PING to one who may know...
320 posted on 02/16/2002 9:54:34 PM PST by RonDog
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