Posted on 02/15/2002 7:01:31 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn
Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien
Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.
This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.
When we are ready to move on, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome . Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.
If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.
Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.
One other request . This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many and take up bandwidth, lets keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, lets try to use links instead of images wherever possible.
So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.
Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to guard and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.
Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.
*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: dont act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.
I will try to avoid "spoiling" for those (Are there any? Apparently) who did not while away their adolesence wrapped between the covers of these books. I must have read them thirty times, put them down for twenty years, just saw the movie, and read it through again. I even love the appendixes (sp? appendi?)Oh, Just wait 'til you get to the part where....No! Never mind!
I imagine Middle Earth in the time of Aragorn's son's reign, Eregion florishing, and trees walking north of Bywater. The story continues on.
I wish the entire first book had been a 3 hour film; the first chapter does an excellent job of setting up the idyllic life in the Shire. You can sense the innocence soon to be lost, and get just a glimpse of the backbone and courage within the hobbits.
btw, are planning to do a chapter a week, and start the discussion on Saturdays? If so, I will have to schedule my reading, hehe.
Maybe you ARE a hobbit...
;-)
I am enjoying the detail and time Tolkien gave to developing the hobbit characters and the foreshadowing of the dark times to come before they set out. The film could not reasonably have been expected to do all that... A full 17 years passes between the party and the beginning of the journey... and I think it took Gandalf about two minutes to get our Frodo out the door in the film, although it was hinted that he had traveled far...
More excerpts:
Frodo began to feel restless, and the old paths seemed to well-trodden. He looked at maps, and wondered what lay beyond their edges . He took to wandering further afield and more often by himself; and Merry and his other friends watched him anxiously. Often he was seen walking and talking with the strange wayfarers that began at this time to appear in the Shire .Elves, who seldom walked in the Shire, could now be seen passing westward through the woods in the evening, passing and not returning
...Frodo often met strange dwarves of far countries, seeking refuge in the West. They were troubled, and some spoke in whispers of the Enemy and of the Land of Mordor...
"You have not seen him," Gandalf broke in. [referring to Gollum]At first, I was disappointed that this section was transposed to the Mines of Moria. But after subsequent viewings, it has that kind of gut-wrenching impact, so close to Gandalf's fall and hearing Gollum's footsteps."No, and I don't want to," said Frodo. "I can't understand you. Do you mean to say that you, and the Elves, have let him live on after all those horrible deeds? No at any rate he is as bad as an Orc, and just an enemy. He deserves death."
"Deserves it! I daresay he does. Many that live deserve death. And some deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement....snip....And he is bound up with the fate of the Ring. My heart tells me that he has some part to play yet, for good or ill, before the end; and when that comes, the pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many--yours not least..."
No one else ever touched the ring except for Frodo and Sam (and Gollum, that is), unless my memory is failing me.......which is entirely possible because it very often does...
Touchers of the Ring in LOTR (To the best of MY knowledge):
1) Bilbo (at beginning of book)
2) Frodo (given to him by Bilbo)
3) Tom Bombadil (Examines it and remains UNCHANGED!!!! by his encounter; which has always bugged me as to what manner of creature HE is)
4) Samwise (takes it when he thinks Frodo is dead by Shelob)
5) Golum (climax scene)
That's not a criticism of the movie, really, just an observation of the difference a small change in format can make to the tone.
Yours in Truth,
Two other mortals that can be added are Isildur and Déagol (As we learn in Gandalf's summary).
Two other mortals that can be added are Isildur and Déagol (As we learn in Gandalf's summary).
Bad Hobbit! (Shamefacedly retreating into a dark corner.)
There was an awful lot of care and thought put into how a story is told in a movie setting as opposed to on the printed page. I'm amazed at how well they balanced their faithfulness to the story with the necessity of adapting it to an entirely different medium.
-penny
Better leave some room in that corner for me....and for the dozen others that "broke the rules" as well... ;)
Party in the corner!!!!!!
< veg >
-penny
In this chapter, Sam let's Sandyman walk all over him at the Green Dragon and has such little understanding of Gandalf as to believe Gandalf would turn him into "something unnatural." And, last but not least, his feelings about embarking on this important journey can be summed up as "Me go and see Elves and all! Hooray!"
[Gandalf speaking to Samwise]"You shall go away with Mr. Frodo!" "Me sir!" cried Sam, springing up like a dog invited for a walk. "Me go and see Elves and all! Hooray!" he shouted, and then burst into tears.
Sam is such a dear....
-penny
In the movie, Gandalf is sitting in semi-darkness in a chair at Bag End, furiously puffing away smoke from his pipe and muttering:
"Riddles in the dark, riddles in the dark."The crescendo of tension begins.
Perhaps the idea is that while Merry and Pippin became Frodo's friends during the peaceful years before the mission begins, Frodo's and Sam's friendship is forged in the trials and hardships of the mission itself. And it is their friendship that makes the biggest impact on the story.
There is also a great deal of "class consciousness" that underpins the story--Merry and Pippin are seen as Frodo's equals in class, while Sam is on a lower rung of society...at the beginning of the story...
-penny
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