Lord of the Rings Discussion Group (The Green Dragon Inn)

[HairOfTheDog]

Welcome to The Green Dragon Inn

Approaching The Green Dragon Inn
Hobbiton, in The Shire

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And wither then? I cannot say.
- JRR Tolkien

Politics also goes ever on and on.
This is a place for FReeper Tolkien fans to come and take a break from the impure reality of conservative activism and relax a little with a great story. We (the other co-conspirators and I) would like to study together the writings of Tolkien, beginning together, and discussing as we go through The Lord of the Rings together.

This is a chapter discussion, roughly one chapter per week, with the discussion mostly centered on the books, though of course the movie will be contrasted and compared, and perhaps used to illustrate another interpretation of the story.

When we are ready to move on, someone from the group (maybe me) will ping The Green Dragon List to the new Chapter, but we will continue this one thread until it becomes too cumbersome…. Let me know if you would like to be on - or off - this list. I will for now serve as the Thain of the list.

If you are joining late, jump right in, but please stick to the chapter currently being discussed.

Some have loved this story a long time, and some are newly discovering it. If you fit either category, we invite you to join in, but we would like this thread to stay mostly focused on the chapter at hand and keep moving, but at a pace everyone can keep up with… No jumping ahead, and no lagging behind! If you have other news to report or wish to discuss something Tolkien in more general terms… May we recommend the equally homey Hobbit Hole where my co-conspirators and I frequently have plenty of good talk.

One other request…. This thread will get long. In recognition that images slow down the thread for many and take up bandwidth, let’s keep the posting of images to a minimum on this thread. If there is a great illustration you wish to share, let’s try to use links instead of images wherever possible.

So lets read, listen and become inspired by the many aspects of The Lord of the Rings that touch us deeply and reconnect us to the values we aspire to. Many great discussions have already been had, and I hope that this thread will produce even more. Many FReepers have wonderful things to say about LoTR, whether the fantasy reconnects them with their faith, with their relationships with friends and family, or simply illustrates the splendor of great acts of heroism and sacrifice in the constant battle of virtue versus corruption.

Though it is a work of fiction, we believe the inspiration to be gained can only help us in our larger political goals: to guard and defend our freedom, our culture and our political ideals. May the fellowship and insight gained from this discussion help us to work through the issues that are the basis for our many shared ideals.

Besides, we Tolkien fans* need something to keep us busy during the next two years of waiting for the next two films. If you do not enjoy this story, then please simply leave us be.

*Also known as Geeky Hobbity Weirdos, obsessive fanatics, you name it, we have heard it and we see these names as compliments. In other words: don’t act like a troll, or we will distract you with our endless babble until the morning sun turns you to stone.

[JenB]

Ah, the silver spoons. I do love that bit. Those S-Bs are just no good at all - hardly Bagginses, I'd say. What a nice party it's become!

[BornOnTheFourth]

These links are great! Thanks!

Note to self: get to work...step away from the LOTR sites...

[frodolives]

Yum, ahh, thanks.

Now one of my favorite bits is very early- Didn't someone right there in the Green Dragon, in the Second chapter, say they saw trees WALKING in the north end of the Shire? (Ted Sandyman pooh-poohs the idea) Somehow, I know the Entwives will be found!

[ecurbh]

Well, to be fair, it is a two-way grudge. Lobelia never got over the fact that they did not get Bag-End when Bilbo returned.

[ecurbh]

Well, to be fair, it is a two-way grudge. Lobelia never got over the fact that they did not get Bag-End when Bilbo returned.

[HairOfTheDog]

I will note that reference when I read the second chapter... I am not cheating... much!

[Carolina]

Plus the fact that Frodo was named Bilbo's heir instead of Otho who was next in line to inherit.

I'm sure she went over the adoption papers with a fine-toothed comb looking for any loophole that would invalidate Frodo's inheritance.

[Publius]

They like getting proper meals and smoking pipeweed without Big Folk bothering them.

Watch out for that pipeweed! I'm sure Saruman would have launched a war on drugs, complete with "Just say No to pipeweed" bumper stickers for wagons. That Longbottom Leaf was righteous stuff!

[carton253]

I thought they were entwives too! Too bad Pippin and Merry didn't hear the conversation. Think how happy that would have made Treebeard!

[carton253]

So greed compounds her little theft problem. And envy... Good for Bilbo I say! Good for Bilbo!

[Romestamo]

Well, at least Lobelia has a change of heart. After being freed from the lockholes in Michel Delving, she's so overwhelmed by everyone's kindness that she gives Bag End back to Frodo.

[HairOfTheDog]

Notes on Hobbit government, from the Prologue...

…The Shire at this time had hardly any ‘government’. Families for the most part managed their own affairs. Growing food and eating it occupied most of their time…

...There remained, of course, the ancient tradition concerning the high king at Fornost, or Norbury as they called it, away north of the Shire. But there had been no king for nearly a thousand years, and even the ruins of Kings’ Norbury were covered with grass…. For they attributed to the king of old all their essential laws; and usually they kept the laws of free will, because they were The Rules (as they said), both ancient and just.

It is true that the Took family had long been pre-eminent; for the office of Thain had passed to them (from the Oldbucks) some centuries before, and the chief Took had borne that title ever since. The Thain was the master of the Shire-moot, and captain of the Shire-muster and the Hobbitry-in-arms, but as muster and moot were only held in times of emergency, which no longer occurred, the Thainship had ceased to be more than a nominal dignity…

Clearly, Tolkien felt that good people needed little government. There was also a Mayor at Michel Delving, who's only real function at this time was to preside at banquets. And also Shirrifs, who patrolled the border "to see that Outsiders of any kind, great or small, did not make themselves a nuisance" They were usually "more concerned with the straying of beasts than of people". Apparently even people who enjoyed pipeweed. Not to spoil the obvious fun in considering this weed, but Tolkien clearly states that the weed is "a variety probably of Nicotiana " (simple tobacco)

[Buggman]

Please add me to the bump list. Many thanks.

Yours in Truth,

[Romestamo]

Lotho: "We're an anarcho-syndicalist farthing. We take it in turns, as a sort of an executive-shirrif of the week..."

Gandalf: "Yes, yes, I see..."

Lotho: "But all of the decisions of that shirrif have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting..."

Gandalf: "Shut up!"

[Monkey Face]

In going through our family's genealogy during the last year, I've found a lot of "Norse" words, phrases and names that could have been part of Tolkein's overall story...and I say, "Good for him!"

[JenB]

Thanks for posting this. I think Hobbits are sort of very idealized Humans. They have all our best qualities and few of our faults; perhaps some of them are gluttons, but not many. They're very interested in their own business and not the world outside. They leave other people alone, and other people leave them alone. Of course, they're being protected from bad things by the Rangers and Gandalf. Still, I think most of us would like to live in the Shire, as long as we could get some cable modems and broadband lines brought in. The Green Dragon Internet Cafe?

[Monkey Face]

(I'm a late-comer, but here goes...) Tolkein actually wrote the early chapters of LOTR for his son, who was in Africa. The Hobbit, I believe, was written as an experiment, more or less to see if it was "readable".

It's been a long time since I did any research on the man, so my memory may be faulty. Please correct me (ANYbody!) if I'm wrong!

[HairOfTheDog]

Ahhh... but Tolkien probably has created the hobbits from the best of small-town folk a generation ago, before all of this. I am afraid he would consider our cable-modems part of the problem.... The Shirrifs would never have let us bring them in.

[sphinx]

Fun idea. Ping list, please. Thanks.

[Romestamo]

Tolkiens description of the Sindarin language:

The living language of the Western Elves (Sindarin of Grey-Elven) is the one usually met, especially in names... [I] deliberately devised to give it a linguistic character very like (though not identical with) British-Welsh: because the character is one that I find, in some linguistic moods, very attractive; and because it seems to fir the rather 'Celtic' type of legends and stories told of its speakers.